View Poll Results: Vote on the Final Faction for MA!

Voters
117. This poll is closed
  • The Emirate of Sevilla

    36 30.77%
  • The Kingdom of Norway

    63 53.85%
  • The Principality of Rostov-Suzdal

    18 15.38%
Results 1 to 30 of 68

Thread: Final Faction Voting Thread

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    In a hopeless place with no future
    Posts
    8,646

    Arrow Final Faction Voting Thread

    Yes, it has arrived! After much discussion and endless reseaerch, we have decided on and prepared the final faction up for voting, the Principality of Rostov-Suzdal. We apologise for the delay in releasing this faction, but our leading members were bogged down in exams. However, things have heated up our forums once again, and we are making great progress on the mod. Just a note, I apologise for not having presented a map of Rostov-Suzdal, but it is not on the area planned for our first release, and so the regions there have not been finalised. Anyway, withouth wasting anymore time, may the voting begin!

    Just to remind you of the factions that have already made it into MA:

    Papal States
    Kingdom of Scotland
    Kingdom of Ireland
    Kingdom of England
    Kingdom of France
    Kingdom of Leon-Castile
    Crown of Aragon
    Holy Roman Empire
    Kingdom of Bohemia
    Republic of Venice
    Republic of Genoa
    Kingdom of Appulia-Calabria
    Kingdom of Hungary
    Kingdom of Poland
    Kingdom of Denmark

    Kingdom of Cilician Armenia
    Byzantine Empire
    Kingdom of Georgia
    Principality of Kiev
    Novgorod

    Moorish Amirate
    Sultanate of Rum
    Abbasid Caliphate
    Fatimid Empire
    Volga-Bulgarians
    Khwarezmid Empire

    Kipchaks
    Principality of Lithuania
    Golden Horde


    The Emirate of Sevilla



    In around 1020 the Caliphate of Cordoba, once an incredibly powerful empire encompassing much of the muslim land in the west and sometimes referred to as the Byzantium of the West by modern scholars, arrived at the end of its decline and finally dissolved into dozens of minor political states commonly referred to as taifa states. Among these was of course Sevilla under the rule of the Abbadid dynasty. Over the next fifty years, Sevilla would rarely witness a day of peace as it ruthlessly expanded at the expense of the smaller taifa states around it. Even the ancient and powerful city of Cordoba became just another name in the long list of states that Sevilla had conquered.

    By game start (1073) Sevilla had become without question the most powerful of the muslim states with its only true rival on the peninsula being Alphonso VI and his kingdom of Leon-Castile to the north. The city of Sevilla itself is perhaps the most powerful single city on the penninsula. Such aggressive expansion is due in large part to Sevilla's Emirs, the Abbadids. Over its half century of existence, Sevilla has seen three rulers from the Abbad line with each being more ruthless than the last (Abbad II is said to have kept the skulls of his enemies whom he had personally murdered as flowerpots). Through a frighteningly effective mixture of military backstabbing and diplomatic deceit and treachery the Abbadids have managed to gobble up every other state in their path. The current Emir, Muhammad al-Mu'tamid, has only been in power for three years but he is viewed as cruel, lying, and faithless in his political dealings though in person he is a rather amiable man and a generous patron of the arts (especially literature). His overly extravagant lifestyle, however, combined with his constant warring (most notably with Sevilla's old rival Granada) is actively emptying the nation's treasury forcing even heavier taxes on an already tax-burdened people.

    Form a gameplay perspective, Sevilla fills a very interesting gap in the Iberian Penninsula, being the only muslim power. It effectively changes the entire dynamic of the region from a race by the christian factions to gobble up as many rebel provinces as fast as possible to one that actually requires careful diplomacy and strategic planning as it id did in history. While powerful militarily, Sevilla's treasury is barely staying afloat and drastic measures need to be taken quickly to avert a complete collapse. Its diplomatic situation is tricky as it lies directly in the path of both christian expansion from the north and Almoravid expansion from the south. The ruling family would be incredibly interesting to role play with their various extreme traits and quirks. Ultimately the faction would be a very enjoyable challenge to play. THe only real drawback to Sevilla's inclusion is the fact that historically Sevilla as an independant nation lasted only until 1091 when it was conquered by the Almoravids (though through Muhammad al-Mu'tamid's shady diplomacy and backstabbing, Sevilla did manage to dodge the Almoravid maw for many years before finally falling as one of the last remaining taifa states). Ultimately, who can say where Sevilla's aggressive expansionism and wily cast of royal characters would have taken it had the Almoravids been stopped and of all the taifa states Sevilla is in the best position to just that.

    The Kingdom of Norway



    Norway itself would not be terribly viable without a few of our faction choices. Firstly, they keep Denmark from swarming over the north, or northern Russian kingdoms from tearing through Scandinavia. Secondly, they would possess the Western Isles in Britain, and here they would be key for fighting with the Irish and Scottish. The viking age was over, but neither the Irish or Scots had forgotten centuries of raiding and attempted conquests over their territories, and the Norwegians hadn't totally abandonned these attempts, though they'd finished, more or less, with raiding, and had switched to attempts at conquest. Only a while after the start (1073), Magnus Barelegs (himself dressing normally as a Gael, hence his moniker) he conquered the Isle of Mann began his attempted conquest of Ireland, capturing Dublin but being slain in an ambush in Ulster a year later. The Scots and Norse had yet to play out their wars and dealings to a final conclusion on the matter of various coastal territories and the surrounding islands of Scotland. The early period for the three factions is really the tail end of the viking age in the Gaelic world, with raiding turned to conquest. No one in the isles had been quite so successful in repulsing or absorbing the Norwegians, which actually led to their continued wars with them; because they had intermarried heavily with them, they assumed Gaelic succession laws were similar to their own, and made claims at both the high kingship of Ireland and Scotland, and attempted to enforce them. This comes as well with claims of the kingship of England (the Normans were descended from Norwegians and Danes) and Denmark.

    The Norwegians were prolific traders, trading in countless ports all through the north of Europe, but also in the Meditterranean. Norwegians fought in the crusades, both to the Holy Land and in the 'Northern Crusades'; Norwegians served in mostly German armies against the Sword Brethern and Lithuanian pagans, and a Norwegian crusading king was known as 'Jerusalemfarer'.

    At the time, they were ruled by Olaf III of Norway, son of Harald Hardråde, who participated in his father's invasion of England in 1066 in a failed attempt to claim the English throne. He originally ruled the country jointly with his brother Magnus II, who died in 1069, leaving Olaf in sole rule of Norway. He married Svend Estriden, daughter of the king of Denmark to make peace with him (as both had a claim on the other's throne), but produced no children, and he was instead succeeded by his bastard son, the Gall Gaedhil Magnus III, also called Magnus Barefoot or Magnus Barelegs, because of his habit of dressing as a Gael (wearing a long shirt and a cloak with no leggings or pants, and walking about barefooted much of the time). Olaf and Magnus, the first two rulers one would have in game, are both fairly strong. Olaf was an intelligent man, the first Norwegian king to read and write, and a religious man, who greatly improved the relations of Norway with the Pope, founding dioceses, building churches, and giving gifts to the new churches. He was also an intelligent businessman, who instituted the first guilds in Norway. His son Magnus was an intelligent military leader, and ended the period of peace his father had made, by going to war in both Sweden and Denmark, then on into Britain, retaking the Western Isles and the Isle of Mann. However, Magnus would not be so much of a diplomat; he had no legitimate heirs and Norway collapsed in a civil war after his death, he only narrowly brought to end a few wars in his lifetime. However, for what it's worth, he is a skilled military leader, so the first king Norway gets would be good for building the economy, and the second for making war.

    Early Norway would still be developing out of the earlier form of aristocratic warriors toward the emerging feudal system. Norway, like other kingdoms, was, at the time, actually a few smaller kingdoms subverted to a more powerful over-king. 'Viking' type troops would still exist; they'd be light or absent of cavalry initially in Norway. However, the Western Isles provides a second facet to their armies. The inhabitants of the Earldom of the Western Isles were Gall Gaedhil; essentially Gaelic, but with copious Norse influences. This province would provide them Gaelic warriors, including some light horse, and a specific Gall Gaedhil unit or two. Combined with traditional viking soldiers, they would start with a unique mixture of units, and an interesting spread of provinces, three in Scandinavia, one in the British Isles. Outside of the Gall Gaedhil of the Hebrides, they would have no early cavalry of their own; Norwegians that did ride horses only rode them to battle and dismounted to fight, much as Saxons and other older Germanic peoples often did. They have strong infantry, but a lack of cavalry will hamper them as the necessity for horsemen builds up. In a straight out infantry fight though, they have an advantage of strong, relatively well-equipped and high morale soldiers making up the core of their army.

    As such, from a gameplay perspective, they'd be a lot of fun. They'd in part help justify the presence of the Scots and Irish, as they still had some interesting dynamics at work between them. They have also a unique option of where to expand. One could focus on conquering Scandinavia (an obvious early choice), and going from there into the surrounding area, or using their British Isles province to expand into the isles and form a strong base there with the relatively rich provinces available. Their early armies would be built small, around a few units of well-equipped, capable soldiers good for fighting other infantry, giving them a good edge in some arenas in the early game, but those would lose their potency as heavy cavalry begins its more dominant period, meaning the Norwegians will then need to adapt further.

    The Principality of Rostov-Suzdal:



    Again, sorry about the map, Rostov-Suzdal is named Vladimir-Suzdal in that map, the red region.

    In the North-Eastern corner of the Old Continent, on the vast land between the Dnester and Volga rivers only a powerful state was able to gain a foothold in the Early Middle Ages, and that was the Kievan Rus’. However, by the 11th century the once mighty state started to disintegrate into several smaller pieces because of both internal and external reasons. One of the most significant of these evolving principalities was called Rostov-Suzdal located between the Oka and Volga rivers and extended as far north as Belozersk and Ustyug. The local capital was Rostov the Great, and the chief towns included Suzdal, Yaroslavl, and Belozersk. Otherwise in old Russia only two towns were called veliky (great). One was Novgorod, the famous trade centre on the North, the other Rostov. An outstanding feature of the development of urban life in the Rostov-Suzdal land was the fact that none of its towns was an undisputed centre. From high antiquity this distant land had two parallel centres--Rostov and Suzdal. That is why the land is usually known by the dual name of Rostov-Suzdal (or later Vladimir-Suzdal Rus). However, the ancient records were ignorant of these artificial names and usually designated the territory between the Volga and the Oka as the Zalessk Land. What’s important is that the political unification of these two strong settlements and the several smaller ones opened the door to the split from the Kievan state. However, historically it did not take place until 1125, so in 1073 the faction would start as a subordered part of Kiev.

    Slavic settlers entered the region in the 10th century and soon made it the centre of the Great Russian nation. The area is indeed the centre, lying as it does across the river route from the Baltic Sea to the Caspian Sea via the Oka and Volga Rivers and adjacent to the route from the Baltic to the Black Sea via the Dnieper River. That is why in the Zalessk Land trade was flourishing in this time much to the delight of the prince and the through passenger merchants. The pleasant economical situation enabled the line-up of a huge readily raised army as well (10-15000 soldiers). The Slavic colonisation was still continuous in the 11th century therefore the freedom of peasants in the principality was rather high. They were not averse from warlike situations and despite being relatively poorly armoured these Slavic woodsmen were considered tough warriors and that’s why a potential enemy could not be pleased when saw that they were who formed the biggest part of the Zalesskian army, wholly exactly the infantry. This section was otherwise a so-called territorial army with shields and spears (kopichnis) or with bow (luzhnis). The cavalry was lead by the boyars (high aristocrats), was mainly recruited from mercenaries and formed about 30% of the whole army. The warriors who served in it were the younger druzhinas of the prince, except about 20% of the cavalry who made up the most dreadful field unit, plus the escort of the prince. They were the old druzhinas, often deriving from some mysterious eastern land. In general the army of Rostov-Suzdal was not the most up-to-date and best equipped one of its period, but with the lethal combination of infantry and cavalry it formed a solid and effective power.

    We must admit that this Zalesskian military wasn’t really unique either, since all of the Russian principalities and the Slavic people had very similar conditions as well. What really picks out Rostov-Suzdal from the row of the others that is its outstanding strategic location that can provide a rather exciting game-experience. As it was former said, the principality locates between the Oka and Volga Rivers at the very corner of the theoretical area of the Kievan Rus’. On the woody East there is no-one except some primitive Finno-Ugric tribes, northward there is a small land passage to the Scandinavian-peninsula, but danger cannot be expected from that direction and on the South extends the huge steppe, the highway of peoples but steppe folks usually don’t like the woody, marshy lands. For a capable commander a state on this location is God’s own country. The only potential enemy can be found between the Volga and Kama Rivers, that is the notorious Volga-Bulgaria, besides on the West the folk’s ‘own’ people, the Novgorodians and the Kievan central government. Despite having a solid strategic location in the beginnings Rostov-Suzdal can be easily invaded by Novgorod or oppressed by the still forceful Rus’ because of the bearings of case in foreign politics.

    Anyway, these types of ‘inner’ conflicts were not too scarce historically either, so you had better pay attention right at the start if you played with the faction. However, survival is just the minimal requirement. If you have managed it, you can start to expand, to build the foundation-stones of your future empire and then you immediately come to realize that in spite of the advantageous commercial location, the area does not really abound in goods of the nature. Sure enough, playing Rostov-Suzdal you’ll studiously have to attend to those damned financial problems beside the several other one. And at last, when you will tend to take some relaxation gloating upon the subjugated half of Europe then comes the tempest. It is called Golden Horde… Consequently we can say that playing with Rostov-Suzdal would be rather unique and exciting, but on no account a pushover.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 02-26-2007 at 00:30.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    when mod finish? I can't wayt :) !!!

  3. #3
    Kyokushin warrior Member Ultras DVSC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Debrecen, Hungary
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    A rough skatch for Rostov-Suzdal on the former piece of map.


  4. #4
    Member Member ElectricEel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Finland
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    I voted for Norway, on the grounds that it will make it more difficult for Denmark to savage the Holy Roman Empire and for the Russian states to overrun Scandinavia, in addition to contributing to the gameplay in the British Isles. That said, Sevilla and Rostov-Suzdal would significantly contribute to gameplay in their respective areas as well (though I personally would put a higher priority to the Iberian Peninsula); I can definately see why the team had a difficult time deciding which of these factions to include.

  5. #5
    Guest Stig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    At the bar
    Posts
    4,215

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    Norway for me, for both gameplay and Vikings

    wouldn't it have been better to make it a private poll, where we can't see the results till it was over

  6. #6

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.......rostov-suzdal? is this a joke? rostov-suzdal makes norway look amazing. and i couldnt be paid to vote for norway!

    i thought the last one would be serbia,burgundy,bulgaria, cause people wanted them.

    well, i guess im back to mtr.

  7. #7
    Kyokushin warrior Member Ultras DVSC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Debrecen, Hungary
    Posts
    324

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Stig
    wouldn't it have been better to make it a private poll, where we can't see the results till it was over
    Personally, i hadn't known before that this option even exists here at the .org, and we wanted to do this on this forum in any case. Otherwise, i don't think it'd be a big failure, in addition the poll runs just for two wees.

    Anyway, i'd like to hear comments on the other two as well, why have you chosen them?
    Last edited by Ultras DVSC; 02-25-2007 at 19:00.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    I would like to say something. The mod is your creation so the decision is yours. I am not of balkan descent, but the truth is the balkans of the middle ages was an ethnicaly diverse area with magyars, greeks, albanians, slavs, bulgars and vlachs, the states of moldavia, wallachia, bulgaria, serbia, the latin greek states and others all existed at one point during the time period. These states entered into conflict with the byzantines, mongols, hungarians, poles and each other. Units of said nations took part not only in battles that were of local significance but also at nicopolis, ankara, and tannenberg. Serbian cavalry in particular turned the tide at nicopolis and distinguished themselves at ankara angainst timur.

    At the present italy has 4 factions. The balkans have hungary and byzantium, but these factions will probably be preoccupied elsewhere in central europe and anatolia, so there does seem to be a vacuum in the balkans and not having any faction here seems to deprive the Venetian, hungarian, polish, turkish and byzantine player of the enjoyment of fighting a full-fledged faction here.

    I have the following suggestion, it may take some imagination. The kipchaqs were involved politically in the creation of the second bulgarian empire and the creation of wallachia and moldavia i think the first ruler of moldavia was actually of kipchaq descent, bassarab if i"m not mistaken, so i think it would be a good idea to give the kipchaqs provinces in the balkans as victory conditions, as well as giving them names and titles that suggest a link to bulgaria and wallachia/moldavia. I think this would make gameplay a little more interesting for eastern europe and lessen the balkan snub.
    Last edited by Cousin Zoidfarb; 02-27-2007 at 23:52.

  9. #9
    Member Member Yun Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    622

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    OMG I pity these modders I really do,

    heres the upshot - its THEIR mod - they can put in whatever nations they like - get over it - or make your own mod

    obviously theyve chosen these nations because they are the ones they want - and seeing as they are the ones donating all their free time to make it - then good on em

    talk about a bunch of moaning myrtles

    yeh Im disappointed cause Australias not in there - everyone knows we were an expansionist nation of aboriginal warbands

    maybe you should stick one of the balkan states in - just to dry the tears
    Quote Originally Posted by pevergreen View Post
    its pevergeren.

  10. #10
    Member Member Tuuvi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    The wild west
    Posts
    1,418

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    I now understand why the team said they weren't going to discuss their choice of factions...We haven't even seen any previews of units, features, etc. and people are already complaining...I think this could be a great mod if people would give it a chance. So what if they chose Ireland as a faction? I think Ireland sounds cool, and I for one will be playing as them when this mod comes out.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    I made a post in the other thread regarding why Norway should be chosen as the last faction slot, besides the fact that æ, as in Mediæval Auctoriso is a Norwegian Letter (well the danish got it too).

    Anyways here is the link: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...&postcount=119

    PS: My main source is Wikipedia, but I have read alot of other books about the subject, besides I defy anyone who think wikipedia is wrong to supply another source proving it. Wikipedia is definitively one of the best sites on ze net, and the popular view many have that its a bad site is bullshit!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    æ is a Latin letter, not Norwegian.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    HAH!

    I challange you to bring me one latin person to make claim to the letter!

    If you manage that I will bring 10 million Scandinavians to claim it back!

    My point beeing, that France is no longer Gallia/Gaul, because its been taken by the franks, see, in the same way that letter now belongs to danes and Norwegians, because after the last latin dude jumped over the pearly white fence, we invaded the letter and claimed it.

    My point beeing "Even if the letter is a part of the latin alphabet, it is mainly in use in Scandinavia".

  14. #14
    Member Member OssomTossom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Reykjavík, Iceland
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    It's also used in Icelandic - with a different sound than in Norwegian, Danish or Faeroese. It still is originally Latin, though.

    Anyway, I voted for Norway.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Final Faction Voting Thread

    AHA!

    Icelandic is a also known as Old Norse (Norwegian/Gammel Norsk), because the original settlers in Iceland was Norwegians (Iceland became a part of Denmark after Norway and Denmark became a union).

    Well, this thread is not about the letter Ææ anyway, so I really suggest we leave it at that here and make a new thread somewhere if continuing discussion is that interesting.

    Anyways, I think I should point out that the city of Trondheim should really be included in the mod (not included in the map in the intro). This was a very important city in Norway, and had great historic importance. Among other things this city had a shrine to saint Olav (Norwegian patron saint, father to King Magnus the first, died at the battle of Sticklestad on his way to take control of the strategic important trondheim). This was a important site for pilgrims in northern Europe that couldn't afford traveling to Jerusalem. This of course meant a increase of comerse in Trondheim.

    Several battles have been fought over this city (Birkebeinerene won a important victory here), and it was definitively the most important city in Norway at the time.

    Another thing that is important for the Norwegian faction (if Norway wins) is the belif in magic and specially in magic items, like weapons. I remember reading something from a battle where a king had a magic sword that was able to cleave a human head trough his helmet and down to his shoulders. This is again things that make Norway somewhat unique, even tough other people, like muslims also belived in magic and genies (1001 nights).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO