Empire running

[Boyar Son]

Heres a good idea to help you defend your domain. This probably wont apply to all empires but bear with me.

1. Divide your empire (dont lose provinces, just set up make believe borders). Call it Western empire and Eastern empire. Keep your faction leader at your capital and put your faction heire in another big, well defended, great AOR city somewhere in the east.

2.Divide your ruling family. half west and half east. choose one from each to be head of the military and focus on him; put them at the border of your current enemies. Bribing is a good way to gain generals, keep them only as generals cuz their loyalty can and obviosly have been bought. Use them as assistant to the leader of the army.

3. Make balanced, required, historic armies. Ask EUDORIUS (thats the name, right?) on how. Remember, orginization can lead to better armies and able to combine and equally defend all territory. Please disregard the quote "he who defends everything defends nothing" by a holy roman emporor.

4. Focus on militirism. Have good roads or ports so you can support your armies. Make good military buildings so you can make up to date armies. And have diplomats too. Build WATCHTOWERS they help alot, put them in your empire and at your borders.

5. Sabatoge or focus on hit and run tactics on the enemy, slow down they're military and their economy. Horse archers do the trick nicely, and ravage their roads.

Thoughts please

And I think this has "keep it" written all over it!

[CaesarAugustus]

Interesting, I might try this once my Roman empire builds up. As for point #2 I dont really understand how dividing into an Eastern and Western sphere helps with management...... maybe it is useful for the Seleucids early game to defend the East and West. I tend to make my most capable generals the faction leader and heir, so I rarely have them sitting around in cities.

In terms of military point #3, I establish Type 4 Governments outside of my Homeland Provinces. This is because I take an Achaemenid approach to my army composition, raising area-specific local troops to accompany my elite legions from Italy.

Perhaps creating buffer zones by donating some regions to a weaker faction between you and your enemy is a good idea, too.

[Boyar Son]

Number 2 is to fucus on easily dividing the empire so you can manage it easier. So family members wont be forgoton in some backwater province, wich people really do forget about them.

It is imperitive that you organize your imperium. Be it into satraps, principalities, or fiefdom, without order you are no better then the eleuthoroi.

As for point 3 you can take the persian way... but you better hope an Alexander wannabe doesnt show up because without your reliable troops around, native barbarians or out dated troops wont stop the AI war machine.

Buffer zones? Machiavalli wrote and I quote (sort of) " if you strengthen the other you weaken yourself.

Not to mention in history the Hayasdan were buffers to the Romans and parthian. And the Parthians were gaining influence establishing a puppet king. Thus Rome had to conquer Hayasdan.

More thoughts please

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

As my empire keeps getting bigger there usually aren' enough generals to govern all cities. So I "divide" it in provinces and keep the governor in the most developed city of the province.

[Boyar Son]

Do you remember where they are? yeah you probably do...

anyway bribing is a good way to gain generals, keep them only as generals cuz their loyalty can and obviosly have been bought. Use them as assistant to the leader of the army.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I have been dividing my Roman empire into regions based on families, with a regional capital in each region. A branch Scipii in Africa (Carthage), a branch of Scipii in Aitolia (Pergamon), Cottas in Cappodocia/Pontos (Sinope), Asinas in Italia (Capua), Pavos in Gaul (Bibracte), Victors in Babylonia (Seleukia), Caesars in Sicily (Syracuse), Britanicus' in Britain (Camulosadae), ect.

The size of the family depends on the size of the region.

[skuzzy]

That's an interesting idea Marcus.

[Avicenna]

Great indeed, but a micromanagement nightmare.

[Boyar Son]

I have been dividing my Roman empire into regions based on families, with a regional capital in each region. A branch Scipii in Africa (Carthage), a branch of Scipii in Aitolia (Pergamon), Cottas in Cappodocia/Pontos (Sinope), Asinas in Italia (Capua), Pavos in Gaul (Bibracte), Victors in Babylonia (Seleukia), Caesars in Sicily (Syracuse), Britanicus' in Britain (Camulosadae), ect.

The size of the family depends on the size of the region.

Wow how do you manage?

Is it like, a regional capital like one for all of gaul, another for spain, and the Britthanic isles?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Wow how do you manage?

Is it like, a regional capital like one for all of gaul, another for spain, and the Britthanic isles?

Well it is based on family sizes. The Pavo family was huge and controlled all of gaul (except Tolosa) plus Mediolanium and Noricum. The Brittanicus family has only three guys, so they are actually unable to manage all of Roman britain. Iberia has two families (in Emporion and Gades). Sometimes a guy who marries into a family has a decent sized group or decendants and I split them off into their own group.

The most annoying part of my system (a little OCD on my part) is when a guy dies and his son or son-in-law goes to Rome, it is difficult to know the right place to send him. I always find his closest relatives though. (I use the "move_character" command because the way I see it, a single guy should be able to get anywhere in the empire within three months. Never with troops accompanying though.)

[Boyar Son]

Well you could use a few of your family members to lead the important armies and let bribed generals lead the rest of the troops.

[Spectral]

In my current Mak campaign, where I currently hold all of Greece + islands, parts of the Balkans, and Asia Minor, I have more generals than cities, which is something I had never seen in RTW...

(I use the "move_character" command because the way I see it, a single guy should be able to get anywhere in the empire within three months. Never with troops accompanying though.)

that sounds interesting, how do you use it, in the command line ?
thanks

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

that sounds interesting, how do you use it, in the command line ?
thanks

Well, you have to know the location to move the guy (not in a city, other army, or mountains obviously). Hold the cursor over the location you want the guy, agent, navy, or army. Type in:

show_cursorstat

It will give you a set of coordinates like "105,140".
Make sure the guy you want to move (lets say Pvblivs Cornelivs Scipio) is outside a city. Then type in the command, the guy, and the coordinates:

move_character "Pvblivscornelivs Scipio" 105,140

Don't forget the quotes around the name. (You have to move him a bit or else you'll get weird bugs, like recruiting mercenaries from the region he came from.)

[Boyar Son]

Really, I thought people would see "divide your empire into east and west" sort of funny considering what happened to the Roman empire.

[Dayve]

I prefer to keep everything mish mashed. Families running entire parts of the empire? I think not! My faction leader sits in Rome and i just send whatever family i don't pick for battle to them, unless a certain family member conquers a large area of land in a heroic way or something, then i try to let his sons govern that part as a type of inheritance sort of thing.

Splitting up the empire i don't like... My Rome is one, not two.

[Boyar Son]

You dont actually split it up...

Just make believe

[DeathEmperor]

I kindof do a similar thing. When I have a general conquer a certain region, say Anatolia, I have his sons or son-in-laws govern most if not all of the settlements in that particular area.

I like to imagine in my mind my empire divided into certain areas, like for the Seleukids I divide the empire into Baylonia Satrapy, Syria Satrapy, Egypt Satrapy, Anatolian Satrapy, Persian Satrapy, Baktrian Satrapy, and Indian Satrapy. Each one is usually governed by a certain branch of the royal family, although there is at least one general from the "direct royal line" governing a mjor city/settlement in each one.

[GodEmperorLeto]

I always try to do what the Julio-Claudians did--have a highly mobile army of small, elite units that can deal with specific incursions and hordes of cheap, light troops to basically hold the limes as stop-gap measures. In case of invasion, the cheap units are to slow the enemy down while my elite units get there.

I also divide the elite units up by district (diocese, if that helps), and put them in more dense groups near troublesome neighbors. My finest generals always have a comitantensis stack of the best, most elite units recruitable, and are put in charge of large dioceses/districts.

It takes some degree of planning and forethought to pull it off, but once you get it working, it is actually pretty good and not too expensive to maintain. Remember, Augustus cut half the legions from the roster and sent them home after Actium because they cost too much.

I also try to specialize my family members. Field commanders are usually given awesome armies to capitalize their military capabilities, while good administrators are placed in charge of exceptionally wealthy (or exceptionally poor and troublesome) settlements.

It also depends on what faction I am playing. Koinon Hellenon is a bit difficult because I do my best to play them as an allied federation of sovereign city-states, and therefore have each settlement pretty-much try to run itself internally. Large stacks are fielded only when the "alliance" itself choses to mobilize, so playing the Koinon Hellenon and roleplaying it through can be a bit hectic and not very systematic, but still lots of fun.

When I play nomadic factions, once I get a few cities, I try to use the vastness of the steppe to my advantage, as well as the speed of my stacks. I'll send in numbers of small stacks into enemy territories to ravage their countryside and hurt their economies, then disappear as soon as any organized opposition arrives. If I capture a civilized settlement I don't need for victory conditions, I raze it to the ground, take slaves, destroy buildings, and then abandon it. Sometimes these result in excellent hauls. Once, playing the Sauromatae, I actually managed to get an entire stack to Seleucia. I stormed it after two turns, took slaves, and then annihilated every single building I possibly could. Then I turned around and went home. The proceeds from this little trip were so enormous, I built another full stack and went looking for Rome.

Play to the strengths of your faction, but also try to model your strategy after the real-life strategies the factions used. It definitely makes for an interesting game.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Very good post GEL.

[Spectral]

I always try to do what the Julio-Claudians did--have a highly mobile army of small, elite units that can deal with specific incursions and hordes of cheap, light troops to basically hold the limes as stop-gap measures. In case of invasion, the cheap units are to slow the enemy down while my elite units get there.

I also divide the elite units up by district (diocese, if that helps), and put them in more dense groups near troublesome neighbors. My finest generals always have a comitantensis stack of the best, most elite units recruitable, and are put in charge of large dioceses/districts.

Didn't the limitanei/comitatenses organisation much later, with Diocletian? The idea I have is that during the Julio-Claudians time the vast maority of the legions were posted right at the borders.


Still, nice scheme you got there

[Avicenna]

I've just thought of something which could be interesting in an AAR:

To 'legitimise' the Roman conquests, some foreign generals could be 'persuaded' to join and act as a pretender to the throne. Example: buy an Antigonid with reasonably low Charisma and Intelligence (easy to control) and then use him as an 'excuse' to declare war on Macedon, to claim his rightful throne, and install his family as governors there.

A list of contenders would be:
- an Athenian or Lakedaimonian for the 'real' Greeks
- an Antigonid for Macedon
- a descendant of Ptolemy for Egypt
- a descendant of Seleukos for Selucid, Hayasdan, Pontic and Bactrian lands
- a Molossos for Illyria
- a descendant of the god-king for Gaul
- a Barcid for NW Africa
- a Corleone for Sicily

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I do similar to GodEmperorLeto, with the poor quality border guard to hold down the enemies while a legion comes to fight an enemy. I usually find choke points (bridges and passes) and build a forts with 6 levies (usually lugoae) and 2 missile units. Often times they're enough to defeat the enemies though.

There are a couple of things I've learned about the AI, involving forts, that make this easy/interesting/stupid...

The AI won't overwhelm their enemy (most of the time). They will send just enough to defeat the enemy. Because of things like EB traits, this often turns out bad for them.

The AI will attack you for three reasons
1- You're in their territory. If there is a good choke point just inside the enemies territory don't build a fort there. They will attack you, even if you are their allies.
2- They hate you. If you are at war, were just at war, are at war with their allies, or they are so strong they hate everyone, they will attack you no matter the current diplomatic standings.
3- They want your city. This is the one I wish CA would alter. Either your city is weak or it is next on their arbotrary list of future conquests, they will try to take your city. This can be used for your benefit, though. If you are at peace with them, they will make their first act of aggression, an attack on your city. If they cannot get to your city, peace will insue.

All AI activity consideration needs the default, "The AI will attack you first and foremost."

As my empire grew and I had an insane amount of money available, I just ended up with many legions to defend my borders and less need to have a moble group of powerful guys to defend a large area.

[Boyar Son]

You know, maybe the AI will be better in Rome: Total War 2 .

After the expansion for MTW2 and Nepoleonic: Total War

[GodEmperorLeto]

Didn't the limitanei/comitatenses organisation much later, with Diocletian? The idea I have is that during the Julio-Claudians time the vast maority of the legions were posted right at the borders.

Yeah. But I still like the idea of the comitatensis. Basically, it's like having concentric layers of mobility and elitism. The bulk of the forces are cheap, throwaway units meant to only slow the enemy down. The legions are mobile and basically designed to put a lid on any problems quickly and efficiently. I threw in the comitatensis as basically a giant mobile bodyguard for whatever generals kick the most butt.

Still, nice scheme you got there

Thanks. But the credit really goes to my undergrad and grad advisors, who assigned readings in Luttwak, Wheeler, Kagan, and a myriad other military historians of the classical period.

Very good post GEL.

Thanks. Does this mean you'll let me go on a date with your sister?

- a Corleone for Sicily

Awesome.

As my empire grew and I had an insane amount of money available, I just ended up with many legions to defend my borders and less need to have a moble group of powerful guys to defend a large area.

Yeah, after you hit a certain point, you are pulling in so much mnai you become unstoppable. But that's when I like to knock taxes down and try to improve the quality of life for the populace, so they'll be more likely to listen to me when I tell them to go die on the frontier. (Remember, I'm roleplaying here). And I like to be constantly building things in every city. Keeping them busy building improvements only makes everything better. Remember, idle hands spend time at the genitals, and we all know how much the gods hate that.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Yeah, after you hit a certain point, you are pulling in so much mnai you become unstoppable. But that's when I like to knock taxes down and try to improve the quality of life for the populace, so they'll be more likely to listen to me when I tell them to go die on the frontier. (Remember, I'm roleplaying here). And I like to be constantly building things in every city. Keeping them busy building improvements only makes everything better. Remember, idle hands spend time at the genitals, and we all know how much the gods hate that.

Yeah, when I hit that point I lowered taxes to High in Roman areas and Normal in 'allied' areas. This leveled the Roman coufers out at 4-5 million. As soon as I moved into Germania and Persia, I started making profit again. When my emporer came to power, his first act was to lower taxes empire-wide to Normal. Also, the act of upgrading every MIC in every territory took a huge chunk out of my money.

[Foot]

During a war is the only time I put my taxes up to high, and I never go over that unless the enemy are in my lands and I'm on the defensive (I don't do this in lvl 4 places though). At all other times my taxes are either normal or low (usually normal, because the population growth is too high otherwise). This allows a much slower increase in wealth, and I feel much weaker as a faction.

Foot

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

During a war is the only time I put my taxes up to high, and I never go over that unless the enemy are in my lands and I'm on the defensive (I don't do this in lvl 4 places though). At all other times my taxes are either normal or low (usually normal, because the population growth is too high otherwise). This allows a much slower increase in wealth, and I feel much weaker as a faction.

Foot

For a long time I was barely breaking even at Very High taxes. And since the only bad thing taxes does is slightly increase the rate of brigands, I didn' lower it for a long time. (The increased unrest due to taxes seems to be about the same as the unrest if I were to lower taxes and let the town grow until there was squallor.) Plus, I had Very High taxes for 50-100 years, so Very High had become normal and the commoners had done nothing worthy of lowering it (that is til I noticed I had millions).

[SwebozGaztiz]

hello well this is my first post, i accept any suggestions hahaha i am open to any corrections to my strategy.
Usually when you start your campaign, you have a rival faction near you(i.e arvernii have the aedui, koinon hellenon have makedonia, etc.) what i do first i try to subjugate my nearby rival, and after i feel my rival is down on its knees and i have money available to spend, i verify the location of all my settlements and i divide them, in economical and military cities usually i split them, this is done with the settlements you have at the beggining and the ones you took from your rival. This is usually done in order to avoid entering red numbers again(this has work nicely for me).
After you feel i have a sustained economy i start looking the best spot for a expansion and start getting new stettlements and once again depending on the location i decide if its a economic or military settlement(usually i always try to stop the romanoi from expanding by taking all their settlements from italy).
Well this is basically what i do to sustain my empire, never forgetting to leave a good garrison to protect my homeland and always trying to get good generals/governors, to marry my daughters or when theyre candidates for adoption. Oh and lets not forget good scouting and never forgeting diplomacy, never getting into conflict with a lot of factions.
I hope some of my advice can help in order to have a empire runing like an oiled machine hahah good luck!