Population growth

**Kugutsu** · 02-24-2007, 23:18

Not really a bug, but something Im not sure has been mentioned yet - population growth still seems ridiculously high in 0.81.

All my cities have gone to huge, and Carthage was at 58 000 last time I looked. My core Italian cites are probably higher, as they have governers who generally earn growth traits and ancilliaries, and I have built latifundia there in preparation for the Marian reforms. But even cities in the middle of the sahara grow at a phenomenal rate. Garama and Cydaus which I only took to eleminate the Carthies are both cities now, and growing alarmingly fast.

Its such a massive problem that the limiting factor for my empire isnt enemies, but unrest due to overpopulation and squalour. I have to keep huge garrisons, and juggle governors just to keep places like greece, spain and the balkans happy, and it eats so much of my resources that I cant field decent offensive armies. Is there any way to switch off the distance to capital penalty? I dont think it should have such a huge game effect as historically large empires simply devolved powers to powerful local governors.

**Kull** · 02-25-2007, 02:41

Originally Posted by Kugutsu

Not really a bug, but something Im not sure has been mentioned yet - population growth still seems ridiculously high in 0.81.

All my cities have gone to huge, and Carthage was at 58 000 last time I looked. My core Italian cites are probably higher, as they have governers who generally earn growth traits and ancilliaries, and I have built latifundia there in preparation for the Marian reforms. But even cities in the middle of the sahara grow at a phenomenal rate. Garama and Cydaus which I only took to eleminate the Carthies are both cities now, and growing alarmingly fast.

Its such a massive problem that the limiting factor for my empire isnt enemies, but unrest due to overpopulation and squalour. I have to keep huge garrisons, and juggle governors just to keep places like greece, spain and the balkans happy, and it eats so much of my resources that I cant field decent offensive armies. Is there any way to switch off the distance to capital penalty? I dont think it should have such a huge game effect as historically large empires simply devolved powers to powerful local governors.

I'm not happy to hear about the population growth, but the diffculty in governing vast empires sounds just about right. One strategy I never hear you guys talk about is eliminating the homeland area faction, and then letting these marginal provinces rebel back to the Eleutheroi. You said yourself, you didn't really want them. Stop thinking vanilla and get EB strategic.

**Sygrod** · 02-25-2007, 17:40

I am playing Qart Hadast, and in my 0.81 campaign, I have actually had to build farms and granaries when towns stalled at 1800 or so population. Mind you, I have cranked tax to very high. The capital Kart Hadast has stalled at 27000.

**Kull** · 02-25-2007, 18:13

Originally Posted by Sygrod

I am playing Qart Hadast, and in my 0.81 campaign, I have actually had to build farms and granaries when towns stalled at 1800 or so population. Mind you, I have cranked tax to very high. The capital Kart Hadast has stalled at 27000.

That's what we would expect to hear. Anybody who is experiencing high population growth probably (again) has an issue involving an old v.80 save game or a mismatched map.rwm file.

**MarcusAureliusAntoninus** · 02-25-2007, 21:27

Even on fresh campaigns in the internal releases and 081, there is too much population growth.

**blacksnail** · 02-26-2007, 04:23

58000? Could we see a screenshot?

**MiniMe** · 02-26-2007, 20:27

Originally Posted by Kugutsu

All my cities have gone to huge, and Carthage was at 58 000 last time I looked.

That's very intresting, I've took Carthage in my 0.8.0. epyrotean campaign, but it never was above 43 000. Actually, I was allways dreaming of that size megapolis for my empire, but it never happened

Do you have Astarte temple there?

Its such a massive problem that the limiting factor for my empire isnt enemies, but unrest due to overpopulation and squalour. I have to keep huge garrisons, and juggle governors just to keep places like greece, spain and the balkans happy, and it eats so much of my resources that I cant field decent offensive armies.

Ain't that the EB strategic fun we all are looking for? ;-)

**Kugutsu** · 02-26-2007, 20:52

Originally Posted by blacksnail

58000? Could we see a screenshot?

Unfortunately not. My governor died and I had -8 population growth. The population has now dropped to a much more reasonable 37000.
It does seem to be largely down the the governor. If you stick a general in a city with max farms and granaries and latifundia, they get ancilliaries like grain merchant and another one I cant remember which gives -2 squalour and -2 unrest. There is a trait with the same name which gives -3 squalour and -3 unrest. It is obviously possible for general traits and ancilliaries to counteract -8 growth penalties...

**Thaatu** · 02-26-2007, 22:24

Pretty fertile for a human being. Did he have the "outrageous adulterer" trait? Or the "Tunisian stallion"?

**Kugutsu** · 02-26-2007, 22:30

lol! probably, I remember he had quite a few offspring. I have a ridiculously fecund family. I have about 10 generals sitting in Rome. I keep moving them there to train them, then forget to move them out. And those are just the children of my italy based family. I have another branch in africa, a branch in greece, one in spain (half of whom are carthaginians from a general I bribed. They are wusses, but quite good traders and governers), and randomly one in the balearics. I have about 5 generals there, and never get them out, as I only have one fleet, and its generally busy elsewhere. Likewise sardinia and corsica though I evacuate them periodically.