Teutonic order in XL

[Odin]

hey Odin, nice to still see you around! I just disagree in hindsight of Estonia, they're a rebellious lot and not subdued easily. So conquer them only if you can spare the men. Taking the province in the first couple of turns completely paralyzed my forces as they were tied up in suppressing the unrest in this dirt poor strip of land.

Taking Sweden is of course no good role-play but a strategically very sound decision. Without it, the Mongols will be somewhat tougher to beat since you'll have nowhere to retreat to....

I am all in favor of taking sweden but its a strategic decision and not a historical/good game play one in my opinion. Sweden is a good first move, but if your not going to take it then by all means you must expand elsewhere. The immediate rebel provinces that border you should be the best place to start as in the XL mod, land is power, and land is florins.

Everything else in the baltic is a pain in the ass to grab and will take a big investment of new troops. Thats why I say if he has the florins, bribe estonia and take sweden, those three provinces together i believe give you 6 trading goods, 1 steel province and a copper mine.

From there you should be able to have sound footing for moving east.

[King Kurt]

Thanks guys - quick quality advice - just what I expect from the Main Hall. I like the idea of bribing Estonia - would that cut back the revolts? - Taking Sweden seems sound - but you need a fleet to do that, so not an imediate option. I don't start with an emisaary or a fleet, so to build both takes 4 years, which is a long time, early game, without building any troops.
Once I have a base, what next - crusades?
When I have a bit of a plan sorted, I will play and report back.

[Innocentius]

I'd advice you not to take Estonia at all untill you're already wealthy. It's a very small province with low income that really only offers you a second border to Novgorod. As already mentioned it's also prone to rebelling. In my Swedish campaign the loyalty was down to about 120% (Very High taxes) in the late 14th century. By then I had owned the province for 150 years and had 300 men in it, one of which was the Duke of Estonia, a 7-star bloke with 4 dread. If a famine occured (which it does frequently) loyalty dropped to about 80%, and this was in Normal.

[Kavhan Isbul]

The main challenge with the Teutonic Order initially is income - I have found it to be a greater challenge than the Horde. Grabbing provicnes quickly is important, as otherwise you will run out of chash pretty quickly. When playing with the Teutons I also rely on chepaer units (in terms of upkeep) such as arbalesters and militia sergeants to offset the high maintenance cost of the Teutonic Knights, which get spawned with every heir that matures. Taking Novgorod and then Muscovy helps a lot with the income situation and later on the Mongols insist of sending stack after stack to Muscovy from Volga Bulgaria, presenting you with the opportunitiy of an easy bridge defense. This is what has worked for me at least.

[Don Esteban]

I'd suggest roleplaying this faction and only attacking non-catholics or ex-commed factions. this might mean you have to set your own victory conditions such as eliminating all non-catholics. I just finished with the crusaders and it was one of the most enjoyable games I have ever played. Might have a go with the Teutons next!

[Martok]

Just to quick throw in my two cents here:

I second Deus ret. and Innocentius in that you shouldn't bother with Estonia at first. Until you're stronger and are in a better position, the province isn't worth conquering or bribing. (That goes for any faction, by the way; not just the TO.)

I've only tried playing the Order once, but I can tell you that expanding east into Lithiuania and Russian steps (including Novgorod) worked pretty well for me. I admittedly never considered taking Sweden, though. It's probably worth thinking about, depending on how close you want to roleplay.

[King Kurt]

Had a quick look today - Bribing Estonia seems not a bad idea - it took 2 goes, but did it for just over 2,000 florins. Estonia is well placed to produce some cheap troops for bulking things up/ garrisons etc and by bribing there is no destruction of infrastructure. Invading sweden seems more difficult - there is a swedish fleet in the baltic from day 1, so that has to be removed before invasion, which means 1, prefereably 2 fleets and I don't think you have time early game to do this - maybe an option after 10-20 years.
On all accounts, your first unit should be an emissary, even if you do not intend to bribe Estonia, you still need to do some diplomacy. After that some cheap but good infantry - halberdiers, arbs, order foot maybe. Your hiers coming through will help the cav. A ship for some trade looks advisable - and it helps secure your coast as well.
I will return when the campaign gets going.
Martok - the Guide section of the forums only cover the original game + VI - what about developing a sub thread/ section of the guides for "mod" factions like the Teutons, Serbs, Cumans etc. This thread and the challenges of XL thread would be a good start. What do you think?