Question for Backroomers

[Pannonian]

Have you ever visited Usenet?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Nope -- I'm only familiar with the list of archetypal "flame warriors" that's been linked in the Backroom a few times.

[ShadeHonestus]

Can't say I've ever had reason to go there...isnt' just a bunch of agendized flamers firing both barrels at each other with no hope of honest discussion?

[Pannonian]

Can't say I've ever had reason to go there...isnt' just a bunch of agendized flamers firing both barrels at each other with no hope of honest discussion?

That's the fun bit for the more experienced usenetters who've taken precautions to protect themselves from attack. Most people start off in newsgroups that actually discuss areas of interest, although even the most respectable groups can get heated (I've seen 50 year old history professors flaming each other with gusto, and the most innocuous of subjects avoided as flamebait). Their no holds barred nature does, however, make them excellent schools for learning debating. If nothing else, the invective can often be hilariously entertaining.

[Lorenzo_H]

No and Gah!

[ShadeHonestus]

Sounds entertaining at least.

[Stig]

What's Usenet? and Gah!

[KukriKhan]

USENET was a good mass-communications medium back in the day of 28.8 dialup modems and "free" ISPs. You find out when 'your' groups would be uploaded (2 or 3 times a day), then log on 10 minutes after those times, and d/l that batch, to view off-line.

The service introduced innovations like Frequently Asked Questions, and abbrviations "rtp" (read (all the way to the end), then post), and "rtm" (read the manual).

Most NEWSGROUPS are un-moderated nowadays, so spam prevails. I prefer subject-specific online forums (like the Org) these days, when bandwidth is less a concern.

[Pannonian]

USENET was a good mass-communications medium back in the day of 28.8 dialup modems and "free" ISPs. You find out when 'your' groups would be uploaded (2 or 3 times a day), then log on 10 minutes after those times, and d/l that batch, to view off-line.

The service introduced innovations like Frequently Asked Questions, and abbrviations "rtp" (read (all the way to the end), then post), and "rtm" (read the manual).

Most NEWSGROUPS are un-moderated nowadays, so spam prevails. I prefer subject-specific online forums (like the Org) these days, when bandwidth is less a concern.

Spam and unpleasantness can always be controlled by skilful use of the killfile. Customs originating from the days when bandwidth was a concern (before my time) is one of the things that make usenet such a good learning process - lack of snipping, lack of attribution, top posting, etc. gets one flamed to high heaven, which teaches one to write posts carefully, addressing all the important points in a form that is easily readable and understandable. The unreliable propagation of usenet servers also teaches one to provide sufficient context, but not too much (in case you fall foul of the crime of too much quoting).

[KukriKhan]

And there were (perhaps, still are?) an astounding number of experts in all areas among the readers and posters. A wild, or unsupported claim to fact would be summarily shot down within 24 hours - or roundly ignored (an even worse fate).

Yes... observing the posting protocols was paramount.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ah, happy memories.

Yes, I spent a lot of time on various newsgroups during the 90's. Just as you say, a good learning environment. For much of that time, there wasn't that much in the way of flaming. Good groups self-moderated.

Still have friends around the world made from those discussions.

[sapi]

Usenet isn't used for discussion anymore

[Fisherking]

Interesting that some of our moderators consider themselves flame warriors though.

[Lemur]

Wow, set the way-back machine. Back in the day, Usenet was way more fun than the twelve or so web pages that existed. I wasted countless hours on rec.audio.high-end, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Funny Usenet story: I was getting ready to move into a much smaller apartment, so I posted about finding the smallest possible high-end audio system. Something like the Bose Wave but without the junky sound. I forget how I phrased it, but I basically said that I wasn't sure where I was going to be living, but it would be a lot smaller, and I wanted to best, baddest, most portable sound system possible.

One of the rec.audio guys emailed me directly, saying that he was in charge of the Federal Witness Protection System, and that it sounded like I was going to be in his program, and if I would like to make arrangements with him he'd be more than sympathetic to my listening needs.

I wrote him back, explained that I wasn't a Federal witness, just that I was moving to New York.

I dunno. It seemed funny at the time.

[Blodrast]

Wow, set the way-back machine. Back in the day, Usenet was way more fun than the twelve or so web pages that existed. I wasted countless hours on rec.audio.high-end, and I'm not ashamed to admit it.

Funny Usenet story: I was getting ready to move into a much smaller apartment, so I posted about finding the smallest possible high-end audio system. Something like the Bose Wave but without the junky sound. I forget how I phrased it, but I basically said that I wasn't sure where I was going to be living, but it would be a lot smaller, and I wanted to best, baddest, most portable sound system possible.

One of the rec.audio guys emailed me directly, saying that he was in charge of the Federal Witness Protection System, and that it sounded like I was going to be in his program, and if I would like to make arrangements with him he'd be more than sympathetic to my listening needs.

I wrote him back, explained that I wasn't a Federal witness, just that I was moving to New York.

I dunno. It seemed funny at the time.

Hah! I knew it! I knew it!
I always thought that all this Lemur stuff was just a cover-up for your real identity! It also explains why you moved to bu-er, Wisconsin. Yes, it all makes sense now...
Alright, which family did you turn in ?

On topic: nope, didn't have net access until the web had already eclipsed the newsgroups... but like sapi pointed out, usenet is getting back stronger, except for a different purpose, these days...

[Pannonian]

Hah! I knew it! I knew it!
I always thought that all this Lemur stuff was just a cover-up for your real identity! It also explains why you moved to bu-er, Wisconsin. Yes, it all makes sense now...
Alright, which family did you turn in ?

On topic: nope, didn't have net access until the web had already eclipsed the newsgroups... but like sapi pointed out, usenet is getting back stronger, except for a different purpose, these days...

What do you mean, different purpose? It's been a while since I last visited any newsgroups, so I'm not that familiar with the latest developments. If you're talking about binaries, I'd have thought the unreliability of propagation and short retention (not to mention the unwillingness of most ISPs to carry binaries groups) would make usenet particularly unsuitable for that usage.

[doc_bean]

Yes, it was fun.

Bandwith wasters unite !

[Blodrast]

What do you mean, different purpose? It's been a while since I last visited any newsgroups, so I'm not that familiar with the latest developments. If you're talking about binaries, I'd have thought the unreliability of propagation and short retention (not to mention the unwillingness of most ISPs to carry binaries groups) would make usenet particularly unsuitable for that usage.

Piracy, if you wanna call it that way.
The retention is pretty good on some servers - 60 or 90 days. The bandwidth is good. The unreliability of propagation has been solved by using PAR and PAR2 (parity files).
One of the main advantages of the usenet groups is anonymity (unlike p2p, where you can get the IP of whomever you're connected to). On top of that, as I've said multiple times, downloading is not illegal, uploading is (this is not my invention, but the law. So far, in the US, there have been no trials, or accusations, of anybody downloading stuff - everybody has been accused of uploading, which is distributing content to which you don't own the rights). But 99% of people are just downloaders, so they can't really be sued. This is different from p2p, where all clients and protocols that I am aware of involve, or even force you, to do some uploading - which is illegal.
These are some of the reasons why newsgroups are becoming more popular for that, as far as I can tell by reading stuff.

Oh, before I forget, to further improve anonimity, some usenet servers have started supporting ssl connections, so the end result is pretty damn good anonymity.