Iphikrates

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Some random guy with the same name?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It's a common enough Greek name. It's actually sort of redundant ("strong strength" or something like that). Don't you hate it when someone gets so famous that they ruin a name? Like having an Adolf somewhere and everyone wonders - is that *the* Adolf? Or did his parents name him for him? Or something like that?

[Brightblade]

I guess it's also a warning saying (hi our leader is Iphikrates so beware cuz we have Thorakitai Hoplitai and Iphikratian Hoplitai, dont attack us unless you have something better than Hoplite Levies! oh and dont forget war with most Greek factions!)

[Caveira]

Who is this guy and what reforms did he do? I ask this because the Iphrikates Hoplites are the most unrealistic and ridiculous unit I've seen so far. They don't have heavy armor, they don't have long enough spears, they hold these spears with only one hand meaning much less power and they have shields smaller than hoplons/aspis and they use underhanded animation.

If they just used their spears overhanded, they would be Thorakitai, an almost exact replica of Triarii. As they are currently, they suck against everything.

[Vorian]

Iphicrates was an Athenian general during the Corinthian war. He became famous for bringing the peltasts to the light as a fighting force. Until then they were used poorly but he invented a new type of shoes, so that they could run better and gave them better equipment. Then he assaulted a Spartan mora (spartan division, I am not sure how many men) that was returning from a raid in Thebes. When the cavalry left the Spartan phalanx alone, he moved out of Corinth and attacked them. The peltasts were raining javelins and arrows on the Spartans but retreated when the heavy-armoured men tried to catch up with them. In the end, the Spartans panicked and tried to run and were slaughtered. It was a very shocking defeat and there is a long chapter in Xenophon's history about it.

Edit: Found some more info

Iphicrates (d. c. 353 BC, Greek: Ιφικράτης) was an Athenian general, the son of a shoemaker, who flourished in the earlier half of the 4th century BC.

He owes his fame as much to the improvements he made in the equipment of the peltasts or light-armed mercenaries (named for their small pelte shield) as to his military successes. Historians have debated about just what kind of "peltasts" were affected by his reforms; one of the most popular positions is that he improved the performance of the Greek skirmishers so that they would be able to engage in prolonged hand-to-hand fighting as part of the main battle line, while another strong opinion posits that he worked his changes upon the mercenary hoplites that were an important factor in late 5th- and early 4th-century B.C. Greek land warfare.

His "Iphicratean reforms" consisted of increasing the length of their spears and swords, substituting linen cuirasses in place of heavier bronze armor, and introducing new footwear (later called iphicratids) that were easier to don and remove than previous models. In addition, he replaced the heavy hoplon/aspis with a lighter pelte that could be strapped to the forearm, freeing the left hand to help hold the lengthened spears. By these changes he greatly increased the rapidity of their movements. He also paid special attention to discipline, drill and maneuvers; the longer weapons, combined with the lighter armor and shield, forced his troops to take a more aggressive approach in tactical situations. With his peltasts Iphicrates dealt the Spartans a heavy blow in 392 BC-390 BC by almost annihilating a mora (a battalion of about 600 men) of their famous hoplites.

[Caveira]

So they were two-handed according to that article; why are they one handed in EB? And what pelte is this? Is pelte the shield used by Pezhetaroi?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Who is this guy and what reforms did he do? I ask this because the Iphrikates Hoplites are the most unrealistic and ridiculous unit I've seen so far. They don't have heavy armor, they don't have long enough spears, they hold these spears with only one hand meaning much less power and they have shields smaller than hoplons/aspis and they use underhanded animation.

If they just used their spears overhanded, they would be Thorakitai, an almost exact replica of Triarii. As they are currently, they suck against everything.

I think there may be changes in the future for the iphikratean hoplites and epilektoi ones, *but* they have nothing to do with your points. You really do yourself no justice by saying they are "unrealistic and ridiculous" and then pointing out exactly some of the things Iphikrates changed.

[Caveira]

I think there may be changes in the future for the iphikratean hoplites and epilektoi ones, *but* they have nothing to do with your points. You really do yourself no justice by saying they are "unrealistic and ridiculous" and then pointing out exactly some of the things Iphikrates changed.

Actually I do. In theory the Iphricates hoplites of EB are both inferior in offensive terms and in defensive terms, relative to both Pezhetaroi and classic Hoplitai.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

When someone, anyone, says a unit is "unrealistic", "ridiculous", and "sucks" when they clearly show they don't know anything about the unit's history, development, or armament, what do you expect from us? Try voicing your complaints more reasonably and after you've read a little about the unit.

[Thaatu]

In theory the Iphricates hoplites of EB are both inferior in offensive terms and in defensive terms, relative to both Pezhetaroi and classic Hoplitai.

"In theory", meaning you have only looked at their stats. They will lose to Pezhetairoi in straight 1 on 1 frontal battle for obvious reasons, but will beat other hoplites thanks to the phalanx formation. Have you even used or fought against them? Don't say they are unrealistic if you don't know anything about them, and saying they are ridiculous is just one's opinion.

Edit: KH reforms... *drool*