How to switch to secondary weapons?

**Daykeras** · 02-27-2007, 03:34

So I'm messing with some archers and I tried to get them to charge properly, when I found that by ctrl+click attacking they don't ACTUALLY switch weapons until they charge... thus putting them at a disadvantage because their opponent does not have the same issue.

Is there something I can mod to get around this, or perhaps a different type of attack command?

**TevashSzat** · 02-27-2007, 03:43

Hmm...I always used alt clicking, but that might just be due to habits from RTW.

**Daykeras** · 02-27-2007, 03:49

Heh... Woops. I meant I was alt-clicking and this happened. I think ctrl click is forced fire... anywho I _am_ alt clicking but they won't switch until they begin to charge.

**Foz** · 02-27-2007, 06:08

I'm not aware of any other way to make them switch weapons earlier. If the trouble is that they sometimes run into other troops before they charge the first target (and thus have primary weapon out still), then the best solution may be just to watch them carefully and be sure they're trying to attack the closest target you think they'll end up in melee with, which should mean they'll have their swords out in time. If I misunderstood why you felt their behavior is disadvantageous, though, then just let me know and I'll see if I have any other useful advice

**Daykeras** · 02-27-2007, 07:48

ok... I guess the best way to explain it is this. You have two units walking towards each other. One is the Archers. The other is Knights.

You purposely alt-clicked the Archers so you can melee the Knights. However, the Archers still have their bows out the entire time they're walking. It's not until both the Knights and the Archers are at charging distance that the Archers think "Hey, we were ordered to melee and we're still carrying bows. Let's pull out our melee weapons!"

By the time the Archers DO get it out, the Knights have either just smashed into their line with their charge (not hindered by switching weapons) or the Archer counter charge is so disorganized that it's probably worse than not charging at all.

On top of all this, if the Archers happen to be the general for this battle, the actual General himself will not hesitate to charge on time... running FAR away from his support troops who are trying to figure out which weapon to use.

**Daykeras** · 02-27-2007, 18:41

Anyone have any ideas? Maybe something I can mod to make it work properly?

**Agent Smith** · 02-27-2007, 21:45

Originally Posted by Daykeras

So I'm messing with some archers and I tried to get them to charge properly, when I found that by ctrl+click attacking they don't ACTUALLY switch weapons until they charge... thus putting them at a disadvantage because their opponent does not have the same issue.

Is there something I can mod to get around this, or perhaps a different type of attack command?

This may sound silly, but is it possible that this is just an animation issue? Could it be that archers aren't animated with swords until a charge begins and then until they switch back to firing arrows?

**Daykeras** · 02-27-2007, 22:59

It's not an animation issue, unless the animation only happens when "Melee"/Charge radius has been reached.

As for the double clicking/running... they still stop. They will run to their target, get to charge distance, stop, switch weapons, then attempt to charge.

Try it yourself. It's very silly.

No archers, I'm not telling you to run at the enemy so you can bash them with your bows... but if you could do that without having to stop I'd gladly let you.

**Agent Smith** · 02-27-2007, 23:06

Originally Posted by Daykeras

It's not an animation issue, unless the animation only happens when "Melee"/Charge radius has been reached.

As for the double clicking/running... they still stop. They will run to their target, get to charge distance, stop, switch weapons, then attempt to charge.

Try it yourself. It's very silly.

No archers, I'm not telling you to run at the enemy so you can bash them with your bows... but if you could do that without having to stop I'd gladly let you.

I'm jsut mentioning that because it was the same issue with phalanx charges in RTW. When you disable phalanx formation and tell them to charge, they would approach with pikes in the air, and right when they charged the pikes disappeared and their swords were drawn.

It wouldn't seem to be a problem so long as there swords are out when they first take a whack at the enemy ;)

**Foz** · 02-27-2007, 23:22

Yeah I tried it too and was just coming on to post about it. Stoopid archers!!!

I agree that the bow beatings would be better than their current odd behavior. Maybe they could use the bow string as a choke wire in combat. At least the various Italian units should be well entitled to do so

So I guess we really have no recourse, it seems out of our power to control. Someone else had an interesting point though: what on Earth could be making you charge your archers at knights or other units who intend to take on the archers head-on? I'd strongly recommend against doing this, even the best archers around have fairly piddly combat stats for melee - mostly you'll notice their low AC gets them killed fast. Best practice I've seen is to pin enemy units with one of your higher AC units even if it's some crappy town militia, b/c that unit can live longer when up against a frontal beating. Then you can flank-charge with the archers, or simply enfilade the enemy unit once you reach flanking position.

**Daykeras** · 02-28-2007, 00:19

Well... I've been playing some of the more agressive archers when I realized they had charge bonuses. So instead of me trying to get one last salvo in before I'm ripped to pieces, why not charge them and get more kills + bonuses.

This is mostly concerning the mongol unit Sabadar. Sabadar militia for instance is a roughly even match against Noble Swordsmen (no bonuses) in a pure melee battle (no arrows fired). If I could get them to charge properly it may be possible to beat the noble swordsmen head on without even firing an arrow (though this is clearly inefficient and stupid)

**Whacker** · 02-28-2007, 02:21

[blatant thread promotion]

Daykeras, something to consider... Instead of charging in to melee after spending all your ammo, you might want to consider a tactical retreat and withdrawl from battle so you can come back ammo replenished and fight another day. I started a thread last week on this, located here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79728 Might be worth your while to check it out and weigh in, Foz and a couple others have already jumped in and there's been some good dialogue. My opinion hasn't changed as a result, but at the very least I hope CA takes a honest look at that and takes it into consideration for future patches or the next TW title.

[/blatant thread promotion]