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Thread: Suspension of Disbelief

  1. #1
    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Suspension of Disbelief

    Suspension of Disbelief

    Art Student Expelled—For Atheism?
    BY AMY JENNIGES

    Bob Averill's classmates at the Art Institute of Portland had finished up their work in a character development class on November 8, and were chatting to pass the time until class was over. The discussion moved toward spirituality.

    Averill, a Game Art Design student and a devoted atheist—he even runs a blog called Portland Atheist—sidled over and joined the conversation.

    It was the last time he'd be in an Art Institute class—within two weeks, he was expelled, less than a year before he'd hoped to graduate.

    In the classroom that day, Averill says one young woman was talking about her belief in energy layers and astral beings.

    "I jokingly asked her if she believed in leprechauns. It turns out, she does.

    They live on another energy layer," Averill wrote in notes to himself later that day. "In the interest of bringing my own view to the discussion, I began to ask her how she knew these things. Again I know all too well that people can be sensitive about their spiritual beliefs, so I was pretty much walking on glass as I did so."

    Averill says he wasn't trying to disprove the other student's religious beliefs, but "to convince her not to insist that they were scientifically proven."

    The student, apparently offended, complained to the teacher. Averill was called into a meeting that evening, he says, with the Art Institute's dean of education, associate dean, and the dean of student affairs.

    According to Averill, he was told the meeting was "because of my altercation with [the other student]." Averill says he pointed out that he'd "only offered a different viewpoint in a discussion that [my classmate] had started."

    "They didn't respond well," Averill told the Mercury. "Their mantra was 'no discussing religion in school,' which is fine except that I did not initiate the conversation, she had." Averill was suspended for four days, until a judicial hearing with the dean of student affairs.

    Immediately after the meeting with the deans, Averill found a classmate who had witnessed the initial conversation, and dragged him to the dean's office. "I thought I could clear this up, this is just a misunderstanding." (The witness did not respond to an inquiry from the Mercury.)

    But the associate dean, Averill says, "told me she didn't want to hear from me again that day. So she reported it to the dean as rude and belligerent behavior."

    At the judicial hearing, on November 17, Dean of Student Affairs Ron Engeldinger was more focused on the "rude and belligerent behavior" report from the associate dean, Averill says, than on the initial conversation about religion.

    Then Engeldinger, he says, brought up the fact that Averill had had some trouble with three instructors in October. "The thing is, I had already had a meeting with the associate dean about [that]. We resolved the issue and I apologized to the professors involved." Averill was surprised that Engeldinger brought it up again.

    "I expressed that I felt discriminated against as an atheist, and he informed me that mine was not a protected class of people," Averill says.

    Averill has since contacted the Oregon chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and Freedom from Religion Foundation, based in the Midwest. He says the Freedom from Religion Foundation told him to seek legal counsel, and he expects the ACLU will respond to his inquiry within 60 days.

    According to an emailed letter from Engeldinger, Averill had violated the student conduct policy. The decision to dismiss Averill was "not the result of a single action on your part, but a series of actions. I believe that, in several instances, your actions have been aggressive, demeaning, and threatening and that this demonstrates a pattern of inappropriate and unacceptable behavior," Engeldinger wrote.

    The student who complained on November 8 wished to remain anonymous, but her account backs up Engeldinger's letter. Her complaint was not the only reason he was sent into the Dean's office. "The teacher even told me that my complaint was the 'last straw' as SEVERAL other complaints were stated before mine."

    However, she says she "did not wish for him to be expelled or get in trouble and I had no idea that it was going to happen until after the fact."
    On Monday morning, November 20, Averill met with the school's president, Dr. Steven Goldman, to appeal his dismissal. "He upheld the dean's decision to throw me out," Averill says. "He offered to re-admit me if I underwent—get this—psychiatric evaluation."

    Goldman declined to discuss specifics without Averill's permission.
    http://www.portlandmercury.com/portl...category=22101

    ROFLOL Gosh, I hope none of you guys are planning on attending this school! Touchy feely gone over the top is what I have to say about it.

    Let this be a lesson to all of you who think … eer, well let it be a lesson to all of you who want everyone to believe as you do. Remember this is in the Peoples Democratic Republic of Oregon where they are tolerant and open-minded. You had best not offend anyone unless they are Christian or Atheist.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

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    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    There you go, don't go to an arts college if you know anything.

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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    On the surface, this all sounds absurd, BUT, we are only hearing one side of the story. The only real word we have from the other side - and confirmed by Mr. Averill - is that he had a history of issues/complaints against him. It makes me wonder how much time Mr. Averill spent polishing his halo for the story.
    This space intentionally left blank

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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    I don't think he was suspended for Atheism. I think it may have been insensitivity. The main bias I see is that New Ageism trumps Atheism. Of course it could just be that Averill has a big mouth and won't shut up.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

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    Moderator Moderator Gregoshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    Of course it could just be that Averill has a big mouth and won't shut up.
    Bingo! That's what I'm thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by from article
    Then Engeldinger, he says, brought up the fact that Averill had had some trouble with three instructors in October. ..."We resolved the issue and I apologized to the professors involved."
    This space intentionally left blank

  6. #6
    Gentis Daciae Member Cronos Impera's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    No, the whole isssue here is a world-wide leprechaum conspiracy and his Dean got annoyed because...he was a leprechaum.
    Anyway returning to the Orgah Valley of Truth and Knowledge I doubt how discussing about your point of view could be considered insensitivity. That would mean instant ban for anyone who shares his ideas with anyone else and tries to convice the other that those ideeas are right.....that would mean all of us here at the Org. should be either expelled or fired or both......
    " If you don't want me, I want you! Alexandru Lapusneanul"
    "They are a stupid mob, but neverless they are a mob! Alexandru Lapusneanul"


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    Senior Member Senior Member Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    No, the whole isssue here is a world-wide leprechaum conspiracy and his Dean got annoyed because...he was a leprechaum.
    Anyway returning to the Orgah Valley of Truth and Knowledge I doubt how discussing about your point of view could be considered insensitivity. That would mean instant ban for anyone who shares his ideas with anyone else and tries to convice the other that those ideeas are right.....that would mean all of us here at the Org. should be either expelled or fired or both......

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregoshi
    Bingo! That's what I'm thinking.
    ain't it grand when a plan comes togather!


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
    Mark Twain

  8. #8

    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    I think I read about this somewhere else and by all accounts this Averill guy was a gigantic douche.
    Last edited by Sasaki Kojiro; 02-27-2007 at 22:38.

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    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    ....links? Do share, Sasaki.

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    Come to daddy Member Geoffrey S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    He sounds like an annoying fellow; judging by his already irritating responses in the article, in which he's presumably more careful about his words than he'd usually be, I can easily imagine him being an insensitive wiseass in regular converstation.
    "The facts of history cannot be purely objective, since they become facts of history only in virtue of the significance attached to them by the historian." E.H. Carr

  11. #11

    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit
    ....links? Do share, Sasaki.

    CR
    Meant Averill, Sorry.

  12. #12
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    Huh? I was wondering if you had a source for your comments.

    Anyways, I found this:
    I’ve had about eight classes with Bob Averill, and I think the article “Suspension of Disbelief” does a disservice by portraying him as a victim. He was combative and hostile to anyone not sharing his opinion, (especially on God and Nintendo). He was also disruptive in class and spent the majority of class time surfing the internet instead of paying attention. Bob could be funny and nice as long as you didn’t rile him up, but he never seemed interested in being at the school. While I think expulsion is harsh, allowing him to reapply if he undergoes psychiatric evaluation is more than fair. At least some anger management. -Brett
    from here: http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogt...eprechauns.php

    CR
    Ja Mata, Tosa.

    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    So he can't graduate and get employed by McDonald's... well what else does one do with an arts degree, the paper after all is a little too harsh to use as after an ablution...
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    Of course it could just be that Averill has a big mouth and won't shut up.


    I think the guy's version of the story is what requires "Suspension of Disbelief".
    "Don't believe everything you read online."
    -Abraham Lincoln

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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Suspension of Disbelief

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking
    ...Of course it could just be that Averill has a big mouth and won't shut up.
    He shoots...he scores! Deep from three-point land and nothing but net.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

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