One third of the holocaust.

[The Wizard]

How about all the people that lost their families? Three-quarters of my family didn't return after being carted off by the Nazis. What -- they were sent off to a vacation on the Wannsee and didn't want to come back?

[Ser Clegane]

Hmm ... I endured the first three of these film clips (I say "endured" as the voice of the narrator kind of stirs up unhealthy fantasies of violence ... it's amazing and scary how just hearing the voice makes you want to smack a person...).

The whole approach very much reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy "theories". The "maker" of these films resorts to "raisin picking" i.e. he picks some snippets of the whole thing and tries to poke some holes by presenting "facts" that he of course does not bother to back up - like the well case - he asserts that the well of course must be contaminated without providing any evidence that this would be the case (what was the actual set-up of the well? how deep was it? what was the nature of the ground/soil). He just states matter-of-factly that the water would have been contaminated, just as he states matter-of-factly that the prisoners all had an urban background and therefore of course had no clue that their "made up story" (that's what he accusses them of more or less directly) made no sense.
Extremely sloppy work, but usually enough to put some doubts in some minds - and that's what this is all about.

[The Foolish Horseman]

yeh it does remind me a bit of the old 9/11 conspiracies.

On BBC2 a fortnight ago they showed a conspiracy files: 9/11 and i have to admit, when you look at it form the acute angle they view the event from, the conspiracy theories which usually seem utter balderdash, they actually seem extremely plausible, and in many cases even uncannily true.


sorry to "Hijack" ( sorry, what a disresepctful pun) the thread, but did any body else se this show?

Post your views here

[Adrian II]

Hmm ... I endured the first three of these film clips (I say "endured" as the voice of the narrator kind of stirs up unhealthy fantasies of violence ... it's amazing and scary how just hearing the voice makes you want tosmack a person...).

The whole approach very much reminds me of the 9/11 conspiracy "theories". The "maker" of these films resorts to "raisin picking" i.e. he picks some snippets of the whole thing and tries to poke some holes by presenting presenting "facts" that he of course does not bother to back up - like the well case - he asserts that the well of course must be contaminated without providing any evidence that this would be the case (what was the actual set-up of the well? how deep was it? what was the nature of the ground/soil). He just states matter-of-factly that the water would have been contaminated, just as he states matter-of-factly that the prisoners all had an urban background and therefore of course had no clue that their "made up story" (that's what he accusses them of more or less directly) made no sense.
Extremely sloppy work, but usually enough enough to put some doubts in some minds - and that's what this is all about.

Well said, Ser Clegane. My fascination is with the reasons why some people are receptive to this sort of stuff on the one hand, and with the motivation of the makers, who go to such extraordinary lengths to 'prove' their moot and historically irrelevant points on the other hand.

It sort of serves as a necessary reminder. A reminder that there is enough hatred, prejudice and militant stupidity in this world to last us another Stone Age.

[Fragony]

Well it's a what if, the holocaust is a symbol, the ultimate genocide, but there have been more genocides, it makes those seem less bad. And there is a lot of propaganda, the gaschambers in auswitz are replica's build after the war, who in his right mind would rebuild a thing like that unless it serves a purpose.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Why don't conspiracists ever deny that there ever was a Roman Empire? Or deny that Napoleon was a real person versus just a foreign fabrication? I mean, the physical, written, demographic, testimonial evidence for those two is tiny compared to the overwhelming amount there is for the Holocaust.

Not to draw this topic off course, but could there be a teeny bit of anti-semitism involved in denying that the most well-documented and intensly studied event of living memory happened at all?

the gaschambers in auswitz are replica's build after the war, who in his right mind would rebuild a thing like that unless it serves a purpose.

No, the major gas chambers at Auschwitz were left intact very much as they were found, in their blown-up state. A gas chamber at the smaller camp was reconstructed after the war. The Germans had closed it and used it for different purposes already during the war. It was later reconstructed for educational, not zionist-capitalist-bolshewist, purposes. This was clearly stated as such when I took a guided tour there.

Edit: JKarinen. You seem genuinely interested in this subject. It is always good to keep an open mind, and to let each generation of historians scrutinize the historical sources they have. A lot is known about the Holocaust, a lot isn't. By all means use your own judgement.
Generally accepted figures are that some 4.5 to 6 million Jews were murdered.
it was german accounts that said 6million from all work/death camps died and allies and jewish said it was more like 11-16million where i think is kinda far fetched since what is it like 12million something jewish residents in germany/poland at the time i cant remember but i think germany had about 5million while poland had about 6.5-7 million

[Fragony]

No, the major gas chambers at Auschwitz were left intact very much as they were found, in their blown-up state. A gas chamber at the smaller camp was reconstructed after the war. The Germans had closed it and used it for different purposes already during the war. It was later reconstructed for educational, not zionist-capitalist-bolshewist, purposes. This was clearly stated as such when I took a guided tour there.

Gah didn't know that, that's the problem with findings from people with an agenda. Where I read it should have been a slight indication that they might have.

[ShadeHonestus]

If you're really interested in the subject of the holocaust and just how big and well coordinated the whole scheme was, watch the movie Conspiracy by HBO Films not the one with Mel Gibson. It centers on recreating the meeting at Wannsee(sp), going by a single set of notes and minutes that survived from that meeting.

Btw conspiracy as the title refers to that used to wrestle power from all the necessary agencies to make the final solution happen...it has nothing to do with the tin hat wearers who say it didn't happen.

[Veho Nex]

Hmm ... I endured the first three of these film clips (I say "endured" as the voice of the narrator kind of stirs up unhealthy fantasies of violence ... it's amazing and scary how just hearing the voice makes you want to smack a person...)

Very interesting well i finished watching all these and the guy does have a very creepy voice that like makes you want to commit violence towards my fellow man... but any ways some facts he states entirely true and mathematically impossible to do some of these things but then again you need to look at the finer pictures of who's family got hauled off and who survived it was german accounts that said 6million from all work/death camps died and allies and jewish said it was more like 11-16million where i think is kinda far fetched since what is it like 12million something jewish residents in germany/poland at the time i cant remember but i think germany had about 5million while poland had about 6.5-7 million