need a manual control for the freaking gate

[Zghuk]

My guess as to why a manual control isn't ingame is that it would lead to some members of a unit being stranded, and as we all know, when some men get stuck at the bottom of ladders etc it really stuffs things up.

Stranded men? Who cares?

We have to defend a city and the closed gates are more important... I think in MTW1 there was a manual button, right?

[Lusted]

We have to defend a city and the closed gates are more important... I think in MTW1 there was a manual button, right?

No. Gates clsoed and opened as you mvoed your troops through.

[Northnovas]

YES! YES! There should be a manual control. Nothing worse then a bad mouse click in the heat of battle and a unit sallies out. The enemy infantry was routed off the walls and there is just enemy calvary outside the walls. Now the gates are wide opened and no way to close them quick enough because of an errand unit in the wrong place. ARRGHH!

[HoreTore]

No. Gates clsoed and opened as you mvoed your troops through.

Yes, but you did have the option to lock it so it wouldn't open for anyone, friend or foe. It still wouldn't close until a unit was completely through it however.

[dismal]

The real need here, I think, is to be able to lock routers out. Though sometimes I find my gate getting opened by strange pathing choices. It would be nice to have a lock button.

I'd like to be able to send a unit of cav out on a mission (i.e., to kill the enemy catapults) without having them open the gate when they rout. Horse archers in particular seem to rout easily, and can do strange things near the gate if you leave skirmish mode on.

[Whacker]

Some good discussion. I'll go on record stating that I am definitely in favor of adding the ability to control gun towers and the gate, and giving the gate a locking mechanism.

Sure controlling towers would make the game easier, but it would also force the player to make choices. Do you attack the ram or the ladders coming at you? Perhaps something that would even this out a bit is not being able to control each individual tower, and that you have to pick a single target and all towers in range will fire at them. Any other towers that can't reach the target unit will go back to autofire and engage at their own discretion.

Regarding the gate, I have the same complaints as the OP. Adding a means to control this would be a godsend, but sapi and the others had some good points. Let's face it, the pathing in this game and the blobbing isn't that great, at least as of v1.1, even with Carl's great patch. I think there's a few key points to the gate mechanic, at least as I see it.

1. Give us the ability to lock it, if not open/close. I'd actually prefer just the lock instead of manually opening/closing it.
2. The lock function would immediately close the gate and lock it. Anything caught under it should be instagibbed.
3. Anything caught outside after the gate is closed , such as split units, would either force the game to A> keep the split units at the gate or B> dynamically split off the affected men from the parent units and treat them all as routers, and route them off the map away from the nearest enemy. Given my experiences so far with the TW engines I kinda doubt the latter is possible, so it might just be the former and you're stuck with your units massed around the gate.

Just some stuff to consider. Whatever happens I still think CA needs to put some serious effort into unit cohesion, blobbing, and pathing. Hopefully 1.2 will be a good step forward.

[JCoyote]

I think we should be able to tell towers what to do.

Ra's argument against is entirely based on balance. But the argument for is simply logic and history. The commander of a city can't direct the towers where to fire? At all??? That's just illogical. Next thing you know, because human players win so easy. you'll say we don't need to control troops either...

It's not about balance, it's about the choices I COULD have made as a military commander that I can't. Yet.

"Tell the towers to fire on that battering ram before they have the gate in pieces!"

"Sorry sir, we can't let you do that?"

"And WHY NOT?"

"Wouldn't be sporting, we have to give those chaps out there a fairer chance to kill us all."

[R'as al Ghul]

"Wouldn't be sporting, we have to give those chaps out there a fairer chance to kill us all."

That's the spirit.

[derfinsterling]

I think we should be able to tell towers what to do.

Ra's argument against is entirely based on balance. But the argument for is simply logic and history. The commander of a city can't direct the towers where to fire? At all??? That's just illogical. Next thing you know, because human players win so easy. you'll say we don't need to control troops either...

It's not about balance, it's about the choices I COULD have made as a military commander that I can't. Yet.

On the other hand, Towers never run out of ammo. You just need a unit nearby.

[Moah]

"Tell the towers to fire on that battering ram before they have the gate in pieces!"

"Sorry sir, we can't let you do that?"

"And WHY NOT?"

"Wouldn't be sporting, we have to give those chaps out there a fairer chance to kill us all."

Strangely enough that's precisely why James 4 lost the battle of Flodden, despite being in a superior position (on a hill).

His Captain of Artillery begged him to allow them to open fire on the English. He replied "No. We shall meet them on the open field with honour!" They were promptly slaughtered by the superior quality of the English Army.

So console yourself with the fact it's historically accurate....

[Bob the Insane]

The real need here, I think, is to be able to lock routers out. Though sometimes I find my gate getting opened by strange pathing choices. It would be nice to have a lock button.

I'd like to be able to send a unit of cav out on a mission (i.e., to kill the enemy catapults) without having them open the gate when they rout. Horse archers in particular seem to rout easily, and can do strange things near the gate if you leave skirmish mode on.

I was under the impression that the gates will close if the enemy is too close even if routers are trying to get back in...

However it will probably not close if any of the routing unit has made it back through the gate before the enemy get close.

As the attacker and have definately finished off routers trapped outside a closed gate more than once.

The control of the gates can be odd though, with them opening way too early for the approching unit and sometime note closing again if there is a unit defending behind the gate...

[sapi]

The best method for gate control, imo, would be to let the player control it manually, but only if they have the walls on either side of the guardhose garrisoned.

If they are, you should be able to click 'close' and any split units (half in, half out) should immediately lose all the men outside with no hope of recovery.

[JCoyote]

I'd go with that Sapi. Or my way would be to just have them stand at the gate and defend themselves in melee until they die. IE, split them from the unit and let the AI make them do whatever comes naturally until they're gone. Or just have any troops out there route off the map or surrender... which also works. There are plenty of options, just divide them from the parent unit and hand them over to the AI to do whatever reflects their morale.

Leftovers of enemy units trapped inside is harder but could be similar; the leftovers would automatically do whatever their morale dictates. High morale guys might fight to the death, others might surrender. Also, as abuse prevention, if the gate was being battered and you raised it, the ram should roll in just a little... wedging the gate open. Leaving the gate open at the wrong time with the wrong enemies should definitely keep you from closing it. All it would have taken was chocking some stout lumber under the gate and it wouldn't close anymore... so if you aren't careful, manual gate control could work against you.

[OssomTossom]

The best method for gate control, imo, would be to let the player control it manually, but only if they have the walls on either side of the guardhose garrisoned.

If they are, you should be able to click 'close' and any split units (half in, half out) should immediately lose all the men outside with no hope of recovery.

If you could do that when defending, then I think that any survivors of a split unit inside the walls should take some hit to their morale (I mean a stronger hit than the one from regular casualities). After all, their buddies have just been locked outside - effectively killed - by their own commander. Maybe the commander could have a chance of increasing his dread rating, as well.

[dismal]

I was under the impression that the gates will close if the enemy is too close even if routers are trying to get back in...

However it will probably not close if any of the routing unit has made it back through the gate before the enemy get close.

As the attacker and have definately finished off routers trapped outside a closed gate more than once.

The control of the gates can be odd though, with them opening way too early for the approching unit and sometime note closing again if there is a unit defending behind the gate...

The AI seems to have the ability to lock routers out, but I'm not sure it works for me.

I have had several upleasant experiences with the enemy bum rushing my inexplicably open gate.

I don't really want manual control so much as a lock button like they had in Age of Empires. You just clicked on the gate, and clicked the lock button and your men would not path through that gate.

[sapi]

Stranded men? Who cares?

We have to defend a city and the closed gates are more important... I think in MTW1 there was a manual button, right?

Stranded men = uncontrollable units

The same issue which causes units to be practically unusable once they start climbing a ladder would cause severe problems if they got split up between inside and outside the walls.