Socialist Schools: Seattle's Sprouting Scourge

[Crazed Rabbit]

Seems some Seattle socialists are taking to indoctrinating young school kids in the ideals of communism:

Some Seattle school children are being told to be skeptical of private property rights. This lesson is being taught by banning Legos.

A ban was initiated at the Hilltop Children's Center in Seattle. According to an article in the winter 2006-07 issue of "Rethinking Schools" magazine, the teachers at the private school wanted their students to learn that private property ownership is evil.

According to the article, the students had been building an elaborate "Legotown," but it was accidentally demolished. The teachers decided its destruction was an opportunity to explore "the inequities of private ownership." According to the teachers, "Our intention was to promote a contrasting set of values: collectivity, collaboration, resource-sharing, and full democratic participation."

The children were allegedly incorporating into Legotown "their assumptions about ownership and the social power it conveys." These assumptions "mirrored those of a class-based, capitalist society -- a society that we teachers believe to be unjust and oppressive."

They claimed as their role shaping the children's "social and political understandings of ownership and economic equity ... from a perspective of social justice."

So they first explored with the children the issue of ownership. Not all of the students shared the teachers' anathema to private property ownership. "If I buy it, I own it," one child is quoted saying. The teachers then explored with the students concepts of fairness, equity, power, and other issues over a period of several months.

At the end of that time, Legos returned to the classroom after the children agreed to several guiding principles framed by the teachers, including that "All structures are public structures" and "All structures will be standard sizes." The teachers quote the children:

"A house is good because it is a community house."

"We should have equal houses. They should be standard sizes."

"It's important to have the same amount of power as other people over your building."

Given some recent history in Washington state with respect to private property protections, perhaps this should not come as a surprise. Municipal officials in Washington have long known how to condemn one person's private property and sell it to another for the "public use" of private economic development. Even prior to the U.S. Supreme Court's 2005 ruling in Kelo v. City of New London, Connecticut, which sanctioned such a use of eminent domain, Washington state officials acting under their state constitution were already proceeding full speed ahead with such transactions.

Officials in Bremerton, for example, condemned a house where a widow had lived for 55 years so her property could be used for a car lot, according to the Institute for Justice. And Seattle successfully condemned nine properties and turned them over to a private developer for retail shops and hotel parking, IJ reports. Attempts to do the same thing in Vancouver (for mixed use development) and Lakewood (for an amusement park) failed for reasons unrelated to property confiscation issues.

The court's ruling in Kelo, however, whetted municipal condemnation appetites even further. The Institute for Justice reports 272 takings for private use are pending or threatened in the state as of last summer. It's unclear if Legos will be targeted. But given what's being taught in some schools, perhaps it's just a matter of time.

from: http://www.techcentralstation.com/

I love how the idea of forcing people to conform to one norm, and taking away that which they earn, is 'social justice'. I wonder what house sizes the teachers have. Not to mention instilling ignorance in our youth regarding property and capitalism.

Crazed Rabbit

[Goofball]

Like you I am a hardcore capitalist, so I find the ideas they are teaching at this school to be just as repugnant and ridiculous as you do. However, it is a private school, so there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to teach this garbage.

I also find the many of the ideas taught in religious schools to be silly and repugnant, but as they are also private I have no problem with them teaching whatever they want.

[Crazed Rabbit]

I'm not against this in private schools, for the reasons you stated. I do wonder what the parents thought of this.

CR

[Randarkmaan]

I find it a bit amusing that children are being taught that private property is bad in a private school.
Anyway the best way (or the best way so as not to "hurt" someone's political views or whatever) to teach children is often to represent a neutral explanation of something then present them with various views on this something and let them make up their mind rather than telling them this is bad and this is good.

[ShadeHonestus]

and to think they could have gotten this same education for less in 90% of our public schools.

[Cowhead418]

Like you I am a hardcore capitalist, so I find the ideas they are teaching at this school to be just as repugnant and ridiculous as you do. However, it is a private school, so there is no reason they shouldn't be allowed to teach this garbage.

I also find the many of the ideas taught in religious schools to be silly and repugnant, but as they are also private I have no problem with them teaching whatever they want.

I agree with you on both counts. Before I moved five years ago, I attended a Catholic private school. When I look back on it, I found it to be ridiculous. When I moved and attended a public school, I found my experiences to be much better. The school was far more diverse (my old school was mostly White Irish Catholics with a few Philipinos and nothing else), the education was far better (and my old school was considered one of the higher-quality private schools) and the whole atmosphere was far more appealing. I don't see how paying all that extra money is worth it (though this is just my experience with one private school).

However, back on topic, I find socialists/communists to be hilarious. Their idea of fairness is in some ways so twisted that it just reeks of class envy and overall jealousy to me. That is of course only my opinion...

[Hosakawa Tito]

I could just imagine some of the brighter little scamps, after further research (for extra credit), declaring a worker/student council, redistributing all school staff wealth and property thereby abolishing private property (of which they have none) and class warfare, enabling them to move to a higher stage of society. Forming the Democratic Popular Front Workers Party of Seattle they form their own unstoppable political socialist movement to rein in the imperialistic autocratic adult oppressors. Ushering in a utopia of long denied freedoms such as late bedtimes, unlimited tv, and chocolate cake for breakfast. What do we want? SOCIALISM When do we want it? NOW

Teach your children

[GoreBag]

EDIT: Personal attack removed. BG

[scotchedpommes]

Indeed.

While I wouldn't view this as even remotely as damaging to a developing mind as
the 'evangelical' religious education forced on others, I think that such ideas
should only be put across for consideration at a much later age, of course.

Naturally if the wrong choices are made, action can be taken at that later point
to re-educate.

[Cowhead418]

I could just imagine some of the brighter little scamps, after further research (for extra credit), declaring a worker/student council, redistributing all school staff wealth and property thereby abolishing private property (of which they have none) and class warfare, enabling them to move to a higher stage of society. Forming the Democratic Popular Front Workers Party of Seattle they form their own unstoppable political socialist movement to rein in the imperialistic autocratic adult oppressors. Ushering in a utopia of long denied freedoms such as late bedtimes, unlimited tv, and chocolate cake for breakfast. What do we want? SOCIALISM When do we want it? NOW

Teach your children

Don't forget about the biggest one - NO HOMEWORK!

[Reenk Roink]

In my (public) school days, I was taught that it is rational to accept scientific theories and laws like gravity, conservation of energy, conservation of momentum, etc to hold true always. Now I see the fatal irrationality of such positions and am finding myself agreeing with Feyerabend when he somewhat advocated a separation of science and state as an corollary to separation of church and state.

At my school, a church used to hold Bible study classes in the building during the weekends. Pretty shocking as I was always under the impression that church and state (public school included) should be separate (of course, I never went, but the fact that they offered classes in school is still relevant).

At my school, we were taught that the democratic process is important and were encouraged to vote. Now, I have ardently decided never to vote (and I'm not abstaining courteously either). Recent harassment by voter registration people has only heightened that resolve.

The point is: the stuff that they teach you in school really doesn't matter. At least personally, it didn't affect me. Kids aren't stupid lemmings. They can think for themselves. We shouldn't worry about it...

[Slyspy]

They took away their Lego?

[AntiochusIII]

The point is: the stuff that they teach you in school really doesn't matter. At least personally, it didn't affect me. Kids aren't stupid lemmings. They can think for themselves. We shouldn't worry about it...

You're underestimating the power of brainwashing and indoctrination there, my philosophical friend.

[Fragony]

Private schools huh, no true socialist should be without it. Their money, more worried about the socialist conditioning in our public schools.

[BDC]

Aren't private schools in the US monitored at all? I think they can be closed here if they aren't good enough or teach particularly stupid stuff. Some Islamic one was recently (although as no one had been stupid enough to send their children there it was empty anyway).

I don't know if turning your pupils into little socialists is that bad an idea. They'll still grow up and become rich and successful, they'll just be guilted into helping some poorer people too.

[ShadeHonestus]

I don't know if turning your pupils into little socialists is that bad an idea. They'll still grow up and become rich and successful, they'll just be guilted into helping some poorer people too.

lmao, no, they'll be guilted into taking my money to give those who they believe actually believe in their socialist agenda.


[edit] or they'll be educated into apathy awaiting "social responsibility" to keep them afloat

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

conservation of energy, conservation of momentum, etc to hold true always. Now I see the fatal irrationality of such positions

Fatal irrationality of the conservation of energy? This should be good.

[Watchman]

Private schools huh, no true socialist should be without it. Their money, more worried about the socialist conditioning in our public schools.

Frag, American public schools are pretty much a good argument for socialism by themselves...

[Fragony]

Frag, American public schools are pretty much a good argument for socialism by themselves...

No such thing exists. And they aren't that bad, at least that's what I heard.

[Watchman]

You're confusing reformatory socialism with revolutionary communism again, you know.

[Fragony]

I know, fun as heck, nuance is for sissy's

[Watchman]

You know why the revolutionaries always hated the reformists, right ? I must've explained it several times in the past...

[Fragony]

let me guess not radical enough? Let's keep it right there, the past. We have seen nazi germany and communist russia/asia , wasn't fun by anyone's standards. Creepy stuff, socialism inevitably leads to a totalitarian government, the scariest thing there is.

[Watchman]

Nah. Why the revolutionaries found the reformists such abominable cause traitors was the simple fact that in their (entirely correct) assessement the latter were trying to save the vile bourgeoise capitalist system instead of overthrowing it. After all, the reformists wanted to rein in and tame exactly the factors that were supposed to bring about the proletariat revolution and thus ultimately preserve the existing order - which in hindsight was the case, as where "socialist" reforms were carried out in due time lower-class militancy never really caught root. Where they weren't, well, Russia was one example.

This was incidentally the logic behind the harebrained Comintern policy of the Twenties and early Thirties of if need be supporting the Nazis against the German Social Democrats - the NSDAP were regarded as the ultimate expression of the bourgeois-capitalist principle and hence it logically followed that letting them into power would bring about the Revolution that much faster. Plus the Revolutionary Communists with their Leninist organization scheme and long experience of undercover activity calculated they'd survive the Nazis far better than the Social Democrats, who relied on out-in-the-open things like elections, assemblies etc. for their existence and policy.

When things didn't quite go according to the script the Comintern strategists must've felt mighty stupid. What was left of the German reformists by that point were understandably somewhat cool to the conciliatory moves of what was left of the revolutionaries - that the communiqués were in the order of hastily scrawled letters on prison toilet paper hardly helped.

[Fragony]

Hehehe so they supported the nazi's because a powerfull enemy would speed things up, it does make sense in a nonsensical kind of way, now that is what I call politics

[Crazed Rabbit]

Frag, American public schools are pretty much a good argument for socialism by themselves...

How's that? They seem to be strong arguments against it - a monopoly on education run by the gov't that gets more and more money poured into it whenever the teacher unions whine, and yet grades are not as good as private schools. Here in Washington state, there's about 10,000 dollars per kid per year for schools, and the teacher union is saying education isn't being 'adequately funded' - i.e they want more money.

Indeed, public teachers are strongly against gov't vouchers that would allow parents to decide what school the money supporting their children goes to, because then many people would choose private schools.

Crazed Rabbit

[ShadeHonestus]

Do they at least have open enrollment in Washington?

[Reenk Roink]

You're underestimating the power of brainwashing and indoctrination there, my philosophical friend.

Yes, I don't like to put much emphasis on it, because it leads to a deterministic outlook. Still, I use myself as an anecdote, a weak example perhaps, but it is a start.

As long as kids get to see other sides of the story once they are older, they will be able to form their own opinions. Of course, there will always be a great deal of influence based on the society where people live at, but that affects adults just as much and is basically inescapable.

The way I see it, these kids live in a capitalistic society. I will speculate that more likely than not, they will mostly grow up to be capitalists. The lego lesson cannot outdo the greater social factors at work. Now, if they grew up in a protected socialist environment for their entire lives, then maybe they would more than likely be socialists, but again, it is the product of the society as a whole gradually influencing their behavior (like what happens to me and you), and not a lego lesson.

Fatal irrationality of the conservation of energy? This should be good.

I personally think it is quite worrying.

Read the last third or so the the "Regarding Atheism" thread, and if you have the time, pick up a copy of Hume's An Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding.

Just a very concise illustration of the irrationality of accepting scientific laws:

Whenever I have in the past, broken into art galleries, I proceeded to drop the fine crystal vases on exhibit (after I raided the vending machines for my Twix).

Everytime in the past, I have seen the crystal vases fall downward and break when I drop them.

Now, I’m planning another hit tomorrow as I heard they got some new Twix (old ones were getting stale) and new vases from Polynesia.

I want to drop and break the vases again.

Now, based (and only based) on the fact that they have fallen down and broken in the past, does it follow that they will fall downward and break if I drop them tomorrow?

The answer is of course, no. There is nothing that necessitates them falling downward and breaking just because they have done so in the past. I have no reason to believe that the vases will fall downward and break tomorrow. If I do believe that, it will be irrational.

Now, you may reply: “Ah, but our belief that the vase will fall downward and break if dropped is not based on the fact that it has happened in the past, it is because of the law of gravity”.

I will respond: “The law of gravity is simply a generalization based on the fact that things have fallen downward in the past when dropped".

Here is the central problem of scientific laws, scientific theories, and scientific predictions.

Inductive reasoning.

[Watchman]

How's that? They seem to be strong arguments against it - a monopoly on education run by the gov't that gets more and more money poured into it whenever the teacher unions whine, and yet grades are not as good as private schools. Here in Washington state, there's about 10,000 dollars per kid per year for schools, and the teacher union is saying education isn't being 'adequately funded' - i.e they want more money.

Indeed, public teachers are strongly against gov't vouchers that would allow parents to decide what school the money supporting their children goes to, because then many people would choose private schools.

Well, our governement-funded public schools work mighty fine (not counting the increasing difficulties budget cuts are giving them); which must mean yours have a buggered organization scheme, funding and/or priorities. Which in turn suggests the priorities of your society are skewed.

"The problem, private, is as always between the ears" as they say in our army.

'Sides, where the heck are you seeing a "monopoly on education run by the gov't" anyway ? The US has no shortage of private schools by what I know of it. We have them too; heck, I completed much of my lower primary education in one (and they get some gov't subsidies as well...).

...this wouldn't be that "3v1l f3ds" syndrome at work again, would it...?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Oh I'm sure public schools could be run much better than what we have in America (I erred in labeling them a monopoly, but they are pretty close). But the teacher's unions have a tight stranglehold (read how difficult it is to fire a teacher in New York City, for example) on public education and don't want anything that would improve schools if it would loosen their control.

It's not our society that's skewed, it's our teachers.

Crazed Rabbit