Romanian Factions Requierd

**Russ Mitchell** · 04-04-2007, 03:33

Hi, Abe. Let's put it this way. Kaloyan single-handedly destroys the 4th Crusade.

Kavhan: the element that I believe to be crucial is the initial engagement the day before. The Latins learn not to chase the Cumans, publicly commit themselves not to do so, and then do anyway. You can't posit that they were total idiots, since they'd just taken Constantinople. That means the Cumans are bringing something to the table that the Crusaders can't handle...

but I withdraw my headbanging, b/c you clearly know your stuff.

**Abe Froman** · 04-04-2007, 09:43

Well I get that. I am just trying to figure where to focus our efforts. We may have a chance to modify and potentialy add to the faction list. So I am trying to get a feel for where would be the first places we look to. Not much of a student of balkan history myself. I am much more comfortable with scandanavia and the Iberian peninsula.

**Russ Mitchell** · 04-04-2007, 15:29

Well, the real issue is that everybody's important to the history of their region. Are the Asenids important to the Balkans? Yes, critically so, just as are the Serbs and the Istrian/Dalmatian city-states... similarly, the Albanians are a pain in the Ottomans' side for years until they're gradually converted...

To answer your previous questions, though, no, Romania as such is inappropriate as an emerging faction. Though the Vlachs and Moldavians are around, the conception of government is different, and neither becomes anything we'd recognize as "Romania" within the medieval timeframe. (Sorry, but this is established. Even most of the Romanian scholars I know are quick to state this when the state isn't looking over their shoulders.) When it comes to "state formation," the medieval Vlachs are a lot closer to the Welsh or the Appalachian Scots-Irish in mentality than they are to your classic feudal ideal. It's a fascinating region that the TW series unfortunately is ill-equipped to represent.

So.... The Latin Empire *could* emerge, the Bulgarians and Serbs should DEFINITELY do so, and the Moldavians could pop up as a minor (unplayable) faction very late in the game, as could the Albanians, and rebellions in Wallachia should be common coin as the locals play off all the outside powers against each other. As you can guess from my conversation with Kavhan, the Vlachs, Cumans, and Bulgarians are all VERY cozy with each other (Kavhan, I agree with Vasary on this one), so you've at least got some potential for interesting unit rosters.

**Kavhan Isbul** · 04-04-2007, 19:27

It is undeniable that Bulgarians, Vlachs and Cumans were in extremely close relations during that period. As for Vlachs, I belive they were not that different from the Bulgarians (after all, Vallachia was part of Bulgaria for centuries before the Byzantine conquest, and the population there spoke the same language as in Moesia), and the main reason why so many Greek chroniclers refer to the armies of Kaloyan consisting of Vlachs might be as a synonim to Bulgarians with a slightly negative connotation - Greek chroniclers tend to describe their enemies as Barbarians, and often use use any word that may have offensive meaning to their foes. The Cumans are a little more complicated, and there have been speculations (or we should say a hypothesis) that ethnically, they (The Western Cumans at least) were somewhat similar to the Bulgarians, before the latter mixed with the Slavs. Whatever the truth, the quick inclusion of the Cumans into the Bulgarian society and politics suggests some ties. Anyway, this is really diverging from the topic and might cause a riot among our Romanian friends, which is really not my intention.
It will be interesting to see how the mod handles faction emergencies and the establishment of Crusader states, such as the Latin Empire. I understand this would be tough to do, but I trust in the creativity and ingenuity of the modders.

**Vazul's Ghost** · 04-07-2007, 23:34

Of course, this is all assuming that MTR manage to increase the faction limit, otherwise they seem definite about their choice. It would be a shame if Bulgaria never gets properly represented, but if the faction limit doesnt increase it looks like they will remain in the dark.

**Abe Froman** · 04-08-2007, 00:22

...otherwise they seem definite about their choice.

I think its pretty safe to say that faction choices will not be definite until we move into beta testing. We are taking a fresh look at who should be playable and who should be either emerging or represented as a minor faction.

**Boyar Karhunkynsi** · 04-09-2007, 03:12

I think people are missing the point of rebel factions.

A rebel faction is there to indicate a people that played an important part in history, but did not expand its influence over the surrounding area. It denotes a nation that was about looking after themselves rather than forming an Empire.

So, by this we can see that every nation that significantly invaded another people or place for a economic, social, religious or political reason(s) should be a playable faction (For a a unified group of states/regions that did not expand their influence but aided one and other should be a non-playable faction.)

Which is why Scotland is oft mentioned in games and movies. It did attack and raid England on more than one occasion.

I like to contribute my two or three or fifty cents.