Temporary forts

[Forward Observer]

I know it's "pie in the sky" at this point, but wouldn't it have been nice if one could build a fort and eventually turn it into a full scale settlement, just as such things happened historically.

I think forward_observersville has a nice ring to it

[Philippe]

I like to build forts at road intersections and choke points like passes and river crossings. In RTW I manned them with the cheapest and most expendable unit I could find, usually peasants. I haven't played M2TW much and had started to use the same tactic, until I noticed that peasants aren't really that much cheaper than real units, so I may try peasant archer garrisons.

I didn't have a problem with the forts in RTW (and especially BI) because they were very much in character with the spirit and practise of low Empire fortifications. And since the real limitanei were a pretty useless bunch, peasants as garrisons made sense and a good stand-in. I didn't even mind too much that the forts would vanish if not garrisoned, because that felt right. Besides, the way I was playing them the only time they would ever be empty would be the turn after an attacker moved out. So it made sense that the fort would vanish (i.e. no peasant maintenance cost for upkeep, no strategic flypaper). And it made the need to reconstruct the border defenses very tangible after a barbarian horde swept through.

Unfortunately the BI rationale for peasant garrisons in forts doesn't work in M2TW. Temporary field fortifications weren't as common in the middle ages as in Roman times. And the places that I build forts at would have been held by motte-and-bailey castles that would eventually convert into stone towers. [Actually, most of the places I build forts at would have been small towns, but let's not get too real]. If you travel around Europe today you can still see the ruins of these things, so they most definately shouldn't vanish overnight.

If I could wave my magic wand I would create three classes of fortifications: temporary camps, wooden towers, and stone towers. The temporary camp would be much cheaper but much more ephemeral that the present fort (when the army building it leaves, it goes poof). Wooden towers could probably work like current forts, but would have much better defenses and very limited garrison capabilty. Stone towers would be like wooden towers, but even more expensive and permanent.

[pike master]

right now christian peasants in mtw2 rock. the only problem i see is their low morale but as far as animations they can hold their own against most infantry units in the game. not sure about a bogged down cav unit but id say they could own them too.

also i think the settlement castle thing should be blended together. just give cities multi-tiered walled systems. and the fort into fortress thing seems to make sense to me.

however id still like to know if those stakes surrounding the forts can kill horses or are they just there for looks?

[Omisan]

If I could wave my magic wand I would create three classes of fortifications: temporary camps, wooden towers, and stone towers. The temporary camp would be much cheaper but much more ephemeral that the present fort (when the army building it leaves, it goes poof). Wooden towers could probably work like current forts, but would have much better defenses and very limited garrison capabilty. Stone towers would be like wooden towers, but even more expensive and permanent.

I agree, I wish we could build smaller castles and stone towers. Assault and sieges on smaller structures could be more fun than huge cities and fortresses.

[Budwise]

One very big use for Forts. Putting Merchants in so you don't lose them. After turn after turn of this "Let the CPU take over another Merchant crap" I got fed up and built a fort on two of the main exports in Stolkholm. Now, I don't have to worry about losing merchants or AI leaving their area to attack mine via trade. ANother question, why the hell does the AI seek out my resources and leave theirs alone? Do you get better traits as a merchant taking over other merchants because I never try to put another merchant out and I never had a trait 10 merchant before. But, I always lose my merchants to others.

[Suraknar]

Well I really liked, the Fort/Town choices in M2TW, it certaintly adds more flavor and tactice.

However, I also agree what everyone says here, which also gave me the following ideas, it could have been made differently, in that, all settlements are of the town type, and generals with armies can build Forts (as they do now) that could evolve to Fortresses, cstles, citadels within the same territory as a give settlements.

When in enemy territory one could build a Fort but not evolve it to a fortress and beyond.

And finally, the cherry on the top, Fortesse/castels could ultimatelly participate in the economy of the province by having roads etc (It would require a more dynamic road system because the placement is selected by the player.

To offset some placement of a Castle to some more sensitive areas, there could be some restrictions as to where a fort encampement can evolve beyond.

Like if lets say you made a fort in the middle of the road because you were fighting and defending etc, it would be considered a temporary thing just if you were in enemy territory, while if it was a bit farther in the green pastures/desert etc it could be good terrain to evolve it more.

What this means is that a Province can have more than one "settlement", it can have a sprawling town which is the basis of that territory, but it can also have Castles(there can be a maximum of castles able to be built depending on how big a prvince is).

Castles pretty much can have same function as they do now able to make better units etc. And of cource, would add to the overal defense of the province.

At this point we can intruduce astate in between A or B ownership.

For instance if the enemy captures the City of a give province, but that province does have a Castle , then the ownership becomes contested between the sides A and B.

Additionally, Ctles can draw their recruitment from the City Pool (this can also help with issues of over population in towns). If the city falls to enemy hands the castles of the contested province cant recruit anymore.

So the idea is for the player to mobilise a relief army.

Vice versa, an enemy could contest a given territory by taking over castles.

Holding all castles but not a city will dramatically reduce the production of a city its trade and limit its devellopment, it could also sclae it production queues 10 fold, the city could still contruct buildings but at 2x the original build times.

And finally castles can be Abandoned by owning player or destroyed all together by enemy (instead of captured). It is a choice.

As destroying castles captured by the enemy is a way to uncontest a province.

This could indeed be a real revolution to the series, and its future devellopment.

[TinCow]

Forts in M2TW are useful in the exact same way they were in RTW: to block strategic points with a small garrison. The most effective fort use I have ever seen was one I engineered in a RTW:BI WRE PBM. Check out the following post and you'll see specific screenshots showing how forts allowed me to secure the entire European border from the English Channel to the Black Sea with only 4 armies.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...9&postcount=32

In M2TW the choke-points are different, but there are many places that could benefit from a similar system. The Pyrenees, Alps, and Danube are borders that could work like this.

[Taiwan Legion]

all these suggestions are nice, but they're kinda far out. One thing they could and SHOULD do really easily is just give forts better layout. As of right now, it's just a square with wooden walls and bunch of tents in the middle. No strategic placement at all. Make it like a real camp would look like.

[DukeKent]

Forts are very handy. Great death traps for mobil armys like the mongols. My biggest complaint is the indestructible features in the layout of the fort. A wooden gatepost and tents stop cannonballs to protect the soft enemy soldiers cowering in the middle square. A bit ridiculous to say the least. Makes you want mortars for all factions when you get to the gun powder age.