Sigh @ the Diplomatic AI

[knoddy]

try as i might the diplomatic ai just keeps dissapointing me.
i mean i understood to an extend when portugal betrayed me as the moors cos i was beating down all the catholic crusaders. BUT im my recent VH/M turks camp, i payed meticulous (sp lol) attention to detail in all my relations with egpyt. i got trade rights, and alliance, and gave them gifts of map info and money when i had spare. i thought my southern borders were secure as i went romping about the byzantine empire pwning everything. but alas i was wrong, egpyt came romping into my lands with a full stack besieging one of my towns bordering there land -.-

soooo my question is this. wot does one have to do to have a sucessful alliance. i had trade, alliance military access, and perfect relations for about 50 turns. and yet thye still betrayed me. is there anyway to keep allies as allies and not have them turn against u???

Cheers Knoddy

[sapi]

You need to take it off vh/edit some files

Currently it's set up so that you're essentially swarmed by enemies from the word go :(

[R'as al Ghul]

Currently it's set up so that you're essentially swarmed by enemies from the word go :(

Currently diplomacy isn't even activated.
If you don't change the global AI parameters in descr_ai_campaign_db.xml it's only functioning rudimentary.

[sapi]

I would have mentioned that, but had no idea what file you had to edit

Thanks

[R'as al Ghul]

Heh, and I thought you'd punish me for being negative.
It's not that you can't have fun with the game but it annoys me that so many details aren't finished in 1.1. And they're pretty easy to spot and to fix.
Ah well, let's hope the patch won't be too long....

R'as

[R'as al Ghul]

I should've added that Darth's diplomacy mod from Twcenter.net is quite nice.
You'll see the forming of real power blocks of factions. Alliances do mean something and hold longer. In the end, though, AI factions will always gang up on the player.

[HKDDJulker]

I'm playing France H/H and i have found that the entire world hates me.
I have not attacked anyone first, have been betrayed by the world, and then when i win a war and take a city, the AI has no wish for peace. Every western european went from being my ally, to attacking me and then losing territory. In fact, the only time their diplomats approach me is when they are down to their last 2 provinces or so, and are willing to grant me a ceasefire if i pay them varying exorbitant amounts over a number of turns. the worst part is that the "fairness" of the offer is judged to be "very generous". I don't understand this.
If a country stabs me in the back, and i take half its territory, what type of logic would suggest that I should pay them reparations?
I'd bring up the pope and his silly excommunication threats for defensive fighting, but its already been mentioned in other threads i believe.
All of this has been happening very consistently in my current campaign, and while its not keeping me from victory, it takes away some of my enjoyment when I see the AI try to pull shenanigans like this.

[Razor1952]

I playing L to C 2.1 mod and in that there is an ai mod . Your reputation is very important there. So good relations + good reputation (gift to get the first), (don't; attack, sack, exterminate and release only for the second) then you can get peace straightway if they declare on you. After you have taken a few of their cities and sacked them , executed prisoners then its much more difficult.

[OliverWKim]

It seems the entire world hates the Brits. I made an alliance with HRE really early on in the game, considering the fact that the French and the Scots were hell-bent on my destruction. I also allied with Milan. I granted them trade rights and around 5,000 florins each. Several times I even gifted to them map info. Then, out of the blue, Milan attacked me and even unsuccessfully tried to invade multiple provinces at once, until I defeated them. All was well until the HRE chose to attack me, and now I am fighting a war on three separate fronts. Does anyone know any mods/fixes that deal with this socially impaired AI?

[derfinsterling]

Lands to Conquer seems to make my foreign relations as Denmark much, much more stable.
I've been betrayed by Byzantine (my vassals at the time) when I went to war with their only allies, Russia, and the Turks (also my vassal) when a crusade on one of my cities was called.
France betrayed me after maybe 80 turns of peace, but only after the grandson of the king with whom I had a marriage alliance claimed the throne.
France went ballistic at that point all around though and was swiflty excomm'ed and fell into disarray.

The other alliances, in particular HRE, Scotland and England hold true and steady since the beginning of the campaign now.

[Romeus Petrus]

Diplomacy never ceases to dissappoint me. If you think the world hates you as France or Denmark, you should try the Byzantines and discover a whole new level of "hate". And I agree with what some have stated above, the AI strategic moves and acts of aggression make absolutly no sense. Neither do their diplomatic offers. Is this beyond fixing CA?

[rvg]

try as i might the diplomatic ai just keeps dissapointing me.
i mean i understood to an extend when portugal betrayed me as the moors cos i was beating down all the catholic crusaders. BUT im my recent VH/M turks camp, i payed meticulous (sp lol) attention to detail in all my relations with egpyt. i got trade rights, and alliance, and gave them gifts of map info and money when i had spare. i thought my southern borders were secure as i went romping about the byzantine empire pwning everything. but alas i was wrong, egpyt came romping into my lands with a full stack besieging one of my towns bordering there land -.-

soooo my question is this. wot does one have to do to have a sucessful alliance. i had trade, alliance military access, and perfect relations for about 50 turns. and yet thye still betrayed me. is there anyway to keep allies as allies and not have them turn against u???

Cheers Knoddy

AI is just being smart. You left your Egyptian front wide open and undergarrisoned, so they use this opportunity to expand their empire. Gifting money to rival factions is a waste of time. a sizeable army on their borders will do far more in ensuring that the alliance lasts than all the gifts in the world. I usually have very long-standing alliances....100+ turns even though my relationships with allies rarely go above terrible. Yes, they hate me, and rightfully so: the #1 faction is supposed to be hated.

Long story short: Alliance + strong garrisons + bad relationship>>> Alliance + weak garrisons + excellent relashionship.

To recite one of the game quotes: "....it is far safer to be feared than loved"

[Foz]

Long story short: Alliance + strong garrisons + bad relationship>>> Alliance + weak garrisons + excellent relashionship.

To recite one of the game quotes: "....it is far safer to be feared than loved"

Ahh yes, Machiavelli. That passage goes on to explain how friendships and loyalty earned by reputation and greatness can be counted on, while those bought through favors are friendships still, but not secured friendships. Friends gathered thusly will offer you everything they have when you have no need to call on it, yet when you need them they will turn on you. He continues that obligation stems from love, which men freely break any time it is convenient for their own gain, where punishment stems from fear, which men are inclined to respect out of dread for the consequences.

Smart man, and lots of relevant commentary on politics and human nature, especially for a thread like this.

[holycow]

I think I've said this many times already, and here I go again-

The diplomatic side of this game is dead in the water. Alliances don't mean anything, have very little benefits, and as soon as you see another factions stack anywhere near your borders, allied or not, you will be attacked sometime in the future. The only thing I send my diplomats out for is trade rights, give pope a little love from time to time, and bribe generals/armies. And giving tribute to any other faction is a waste of $$.

[sapi]

tbh, i don't even bother with teh diplomats.

If they want peace, they can come grovelling at my door

[Barry Fitzgerald]

I think I've said this many times already, and here I go again-

The diplomatic side of this game is dead in the water. Alliances don't mean anything, have very little benefits, and as soon as you see another factions stack anywhere near your borders, allied or not, you will be attacked sometime in the future. The only thing I send my diplomats out for is trade rights, give pope a little love from time to time, and bribe generals/armies. And giving tribute to any other faction is a waste of $$.

Sadly at present that is the situation. I dont see any AI diplomacy..in fact I scratch my head and wonder why a smaller faction would attack me when I had vastly more power and resources then they do. They would war until destruction..which isnt really very clever. Even more absurd is the fact I never did anything to upset them ever!

Roll on the patches!