Why triarii upgrade is cost so high?

[cyberVIP]

triarii upgrade cost (in blacksmith) for starters is around 700 mnai in comparison 40-150 of other legion troops. Is it WAD or issue or smth?

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hi CyberVIP,
I'm not sure, yet I don't think it is a bug. If you look at the Trarii and see how much armour and arms they have compared to Principles and Hastaii you will see that it is immensely more henceforth causing the upgrade to cost more. Also they cost much more to train in the first place and the game always calculates based on that. Hope this helps, cheers!

[cyberVIP]

...look at the Trarii and see how much armour and arms they have compared to...

Hmm, not so much differences in stats though, thanks anyway

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hmm, not so much differences in stats though, thanks anyway

[Dayve]

Heh, do what i did. Conquer Sagestica and Dalminion early and build mines, ports, roads and markets... In that order, and of course do the same with Rhegion. You'll be rolling in the Minai. You could make armies of triarii if you so wished. And a big navy too.

Dalminion and Sagestica will solve your money problems forever.

[cyberVIP]

...Conquer Sagestica and Dalminion early and...

Sorry, no way: "historical stony road (c)" only :). Illyrian coast gonna be conquered after The first poenic war as it was IRH (~229BC) just before Cisalpine Gaul ang Liguria

p.s. english as foreign

[Watchman]

I looked up the EDU, and I'd say the early triarii's armour upgrade cost of 697 is pretty much completely off the whack. The figgen Dosidataskeli and Thorakitai Argyraspidai have 150 and Grivpanvar (the Parthian BG-type cataphracts) 100 for the sake of comparision...

Not that the upgrade costs were particularly "stable" across the board anyway. They seem to swing from chump change to hundreds of mnai in some cases, without much readily apparent pattern. Lemme list out the weapon/armour upgrade costs for the various bodyguard units as QED:
Saba King's Elites 177/623
Qarthadasti Sacred Band 110/160
Casse chariots 10/98
Gaul Brihentin 38/178
Getai Phylakes Daoi placeholder 56/233
Pontika Spahbed 110/150
Sweboz Ferulharjoz 80/130
Koinon Hellenon Epikletoi Hoplitai 60/90
Hellenic Somatophylakes Strategou 100/160
Epirote Molossian Agema 100/160
Baktrian Bodyguard 40/60
Lusotannan Bodyguards 60/100
Roman Equites Consulares 80/120
Roman Equites Singulares 120/160
Saka Cataphract 39/324
Hai Hye Sparapet 39/311
Sauromatae Aeldry Ambalte 55/212
Pahlav Sahigan Pahr 80/100
...
...
...geh. The newer ones seem to be more prone to wild fluctuations. WIP, I assume.

[Dayve]

Sorry, no way: "historical stony road (c)" only :). Illyrian coast gonna be conquered after The first poenic war as it was IRH (~229BC) just before Cisalpine Gaul ang Liguria

p.s. english as foreign

Every campaign up until now i've played by the book as much as i possibly could... I'm taking a break from that. You can see my progress in the faction expansion thread if you like.

[QwertyMIDX]

The cost for a weapon upgrade is supposed to equal the cost of the weapons the units use in the stats system, armor upgrade is supposed to do the same with cost of armor. I'll mention the problem to TK and see if he can sort it out.

[Watchman]

Assuming he has something to do with them, you might as well mention that the assorted Successor elite pikemen are in dire need of getting better stats. I'm not on my home comp now so I can't check the EDU, but IIRC between all the differently-metallic shield dudes and Agemas there was type one that didn't have stats on par with or worse than the humble Pezhetairoi. And I'm pretty sure "less bang for your mnai" was not the intention here...
That is, assuming the matter isn't already known and being taken care of in which case discount all of the above as redundant.

[Sdragon]

Don't know about that but I'm certain that silver shields are monsters. They fight with the strength of hoplites when out of phalanx, this with their usual phalanx ability is a deadly combination.

[Watchman]

For about thousand mnai more to recruit and a round double the upkeep (ie. a round whopping thousand mnai a turn) the Argyraspidai gain one point of both primary and secondary attack skill, two points of defense skill and two points of morale compared to plain Pezhetairoi, judging by what the EDU says.

Quoth the Pet Shop Boys: "Was it worth it ?"

Of the rest of the Successor elite phalanxes, the Chaeonian Agema and Chalkaspidai actually give a whole lot better stats for rather less money. The Klerouchoi Agemata are almost as expensive as the Argyraspidai for stats not meaningfully better than normal Pezzies - indeed both their pike attack skill and base armour rating are worse...

Could be just me, but I've a feeling some of these stats need a bit of revisionin'.

[Arkatreides]

Indeed, I also feel that some things are out of line when it comes to costing/stats.

I did a rough calculation where I consider a 'bang for a buck' stats, essentially just

(Attack+Defense) versus Upkeep

and this is way out of line for some units.

Now before you flame the method, I know that there is WAY more to it than just attack and defense stats, but at least within one category (e.g. all phalangites, all shock cavalry, all archers, etc.) this should be a fairly smooth function (NOT necessarily linear, but smooth) and it is not.

Maybe if we had some idea of how the cost is actually calculated (is this an EB trade secret? ) then we could see for ourselves is the numbers are out of whack.

[Orb]

I think the team calculates according to the historical role of units, not necessarily the stats.

I could be wrong.

[Fondor_Yards]

Also how easy it was to get them. IE the silver shields were the son of richest, most powerful greek and macedonian nobles. The seleucids weren't just rolling around in those type of people iirc.

[Watchman]

Your explanations ring hollow, young Grasshopper.

...plus they don't do a thing to explain the totally raw deal you get with the Kleruchoi Agema, or the wildly varying equipement upgrade costs.

[QwertyMIDX]

The KA are a seemingly endless problem. We're still working on them.

[Rilder]

Don't know about that but I'm certain that silver shields are monsters. They fight with the strength of hoplites when out of phalanx, this with their usual phalanx ability is a deadly combination.

Yea dam right there like the Gestatae(Sp?) of the civilized world.

[Arkatreides]

So, let me get this straight, you would rather have one unit of Argyraspiday (966 upkeep) than 2 units of Pezhetairoi (502 upkeep)?

I cannot really see this ever being the case (unless money is no issue). Both are similar units with similar animations and almost similar stats. What warrents the huge difference in price?

Note: I am not trying to flame/troll/etc, I just want to understand.

[Watchman]

Yea dam right there like the Gestatae(Sp?) of the civilized world.

Looked at the stats of the Basilikon Agema lately ? "Epikletoi Hoplitai on steroids" sums it up pretty well.

[antisocialmunky]

Those guys are awesome ^_^.