If you seek the truth, you will find God.

[Del Arroyo]

If you seek God, you will not find the truth.

[Fisherking]

Ok Del…There is some truth to that. The question I would ask though is will you know either one when you find them?

[doc_bean]

I'll say hi when I run into him then....

[Adrian II]

If you seek God, you will not find the truth.

Excellent reminder to most of us, even those of us who do not believe in a supreme whatshemecallit.

[KukriKhan]

Didn't Pilate ask the Nazarene "What is the Truth?", and the accused stood mute? Or is my old memory faulty?

[Ice]

Interesting.

[ZombieFriedNuts]

So your saying that god isn’t the truth, I can live with that

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So your saying that god isn’t the truth, I can live with that

As I recall there was a whole thing about Pilate not knowing the truth because he would not hear/see it.

The idea, I think, is that God is the only truth. There is, of course, a difference between truth and fact.

[The Wizard]

So let me get this straight...

You know what "truth" means?

[ShadesPanther]

So let me get this straight...

You know what "truth" means?

Truth is a perception.

[InsaneApache]

So how can peoples of 'any book' tell the difference between facts and the truth......and why?

Is one perception and one dogma?

[BDC]

So how can peoples of 'any book' tell the difference between facts and the truth......and why?

Is one perception and one dogma?

Facts lead to the truth.

Or should anyway, but humans are foolish.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Didn't Pilate ask the Nazarene "What is the Truth?", and the accused stood mute? Or is my old memory faulty?

Not faulty, but probably influenced a bit more by JCS than the gospel.

Pilate therefore said to him, "Thou art then a king?" Jesus answered, "Thou sayest it; I am a king. This is why I was born, and why I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears my voice." Pilate said to him, "What is truth?

And when he had said this, he went outsided to the Jews again, and said to them, "I find no guilt in him."

John depicts this as a rhetorical question for which Pilate did not expect, nor make time for, an answer. The other gospels do not address the point.

[The Wizard]

Truth is a perception.

My point exactly. Since one individual cannot claim to know "truth" for another, the statement starting this thread fails and is proven false.

[IrishArmenian]

Truth is always open to interpretation and can be warped. Truth can be made. A lie can be told over and over until it seems to be truth. Sometimes, truth is only what is percieved, but not known for sure.
God deals in divine truths; we deal in human ones.

[InsaneApache]

.God deals in divine truths; we deal in human ones.

Explain please.

[Louis VI the Fat]

'And passing along beside the river of Avon, he saw InsaneApache and English Assassin, casting a net in the river, for they were fishers.
And he spoke unto them: 'If you seek trout, you will find cod''.
(Louis 1:16)

[IrishArmenian]

Explain please.

A human truth can be one of two types:
A) A literal truth. Example: The blue shirt is blue.
B) A truth to our knowledge. Example: Ptolemaic universe, widely accepted as truth, but in reality, false.
A Divine Truth is uncomprehensible by the mind. Easy Example: Any infinite amount. Anything such as God, afterlife, universe, these are all simplified in our minds. The Divine Truth is something that we cannot wrap our mind around.
From a religious stand point: Western Christians depict God. We do not, because that would be simplfying God's existence.

[HoreTore]

If you seek justice, you find freedom...

[KukriKhan]

Not faulty, but probably influenced a bit more by JCS than the gospel.



John depicts this as a rhetorical question for which Pilate did not expect, nor make time for, an answer. The other gospels do not address the point.

Fascinating take. Thanks.

So, truth = a silly pusuit? An unknowable thing? Something we seek, seemingly by instinct, yet fully realizeable only by a being(s) superior to we humans?

[IrishArmenian]

I remember someone telling me something like this before. I think it was an uncle.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

So, truth = a silly pusuit? An unknowable thing? Something we seek, seemingly by instinct, yet fully realizeable only by a being(s) superior to we humans?

The "original" version of this is straight from the Gospel of John (8:32):

"and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."

In the Gospel, John uses this passage as part of an address Jesus makes to certain of the Jews who had come to believe in his messianic status. He tells them that if they "abide in his word" that they'll be true disicples and will come to learn the truth. This does set up a concept of a Truth (capital "t") that is beyond "normal" understanding and which requires effort to attain.

Interestingly, these people respond that, as "children of Abraham," they have never yet been slaves to anyone, whereupon Jesus replies that their own sins are the source of enslavement. This suggests that inappropriate behavior, behavior contradicting the moral and spiritual code outlined, is the opposite of Truth. Again, we see truth being defined on a metaphysical level and not on a level of simple observable fact.

So, Kukri', I think the suggestion is that Truth is not an unattainable goal for mortal folk, but is also not something easily obtained nor obtained through simple, "physical," means.

[Pannonian]

I prefer Luigi's dictum.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I prefer Luigi's dictum.

Understandable.

Still, I prefer a little context -- we should encourage him to publish the entire thing.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Still, I prefer a little context

Nah. It was taken from a best-selling quadruple biography of a historical figure. I was about to post a nice little parabel to a story in it, but I changed my mind and shortened it. Coming so shortly after me defending the spiritual feelings of piglets in another thread, I decided I really should take care not to provoke the religious feelings of all you protestant heretics all the time.

But I didn't want to withold you all my pun either. So I changed the names to two self-declared atheists who wouldn't take offence and posted it the way it is, without context or explanation. Leaving it up to you yourselves to decipher the infinite wisdom of it.

[Del Arroyo]

What I meant was: If you sincerely strive towards an understanding of things, this will lead you to a belief in God. But a pre-concieved notion of God's nature will not lead you to a clear understanding.

I like Louis' pun.

[SwordsMaster]

Which reminds me of http://www.skeptictank.org/isaac.htm

Outdated yet quite interesting.

[Abokasee]

Hmmm? I always thought truth meant the Acually thing that happend rather than water some else said eg: "John didn't slap Bert, he Tapped him on the head"

[Claudius the God]

If you seek the truth, you will find God.

but if you seek facts, you most certainly won't...

[Lemur]

I prefer Francis Bacon's riff on this theme:

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.