Not s single major bug will be fixed in the incoming patch?

[Handel]

I shelved the game couple of months ago and today checked the official site for a incoming patch. Was delighted to find an info what will be fixed... and was strongly disappointed couple of minutes ago! A huge lists with fixes and not a single major bug fixed. 1000s of fixes for small things most of which one can live without and nothing about the major game-breaking issues like the shield issue, the wrong towers, 2h weapons and useless vs cavalry spearmen &pikemen... Of course I know some of the issues are fixed in the MODS, but I like to think for those as temporary solutions like the solution for the shield issue etc.
Aren't those people reading the forums?

[Quickening]

The shield bug will be fixed but was not on the list you read. The two-handed bug is listed there.

[JCoyote]

Yes they are, and apparently you aren't.

Those fixes were confirmed in the new patch later down the thread.

[HoreTore]

Might want to read that list one more time, and make sure you are reading the list for patch 1.2, not 1.1. Also, that list is NOT complete, there will be more fixes. 2-handers are in the list, the shield bug has been confirmed on this forum, not sure about the towers though, but that's extremely easy to yourself.

So yes, they are reading these forums.

[Carl]

And fixing sheilds deals with the Cav vs. spear issue too.

[Quickening]

And fixing sheilds deals with the Cav vs. spear issue too.

I have never known what the cavalry versus spear issue or the two-handed issue actually is. Im just glad it's being fixed

[pike master]

i wonder if the halberd units and zweihanders are going to remain balanced

[Carl]

Unless they buff them or nerf fixed 2-handers stats (making them as usless as they are now), then i'm afraid not.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

The list according to them is only 99% complete

Spearmen Vs Cav & 2H are listed.
Shield bug is not listed but the word is that they are fixing it. We will see.

It is somewhat disturbing that there was no mention of the tower bug.
The pikemen are also not mentioned but this does not mean that either will not be fixed. Nor for that matter does anything on the list mean that it will be fixed.

From experience we will only know what will be fixed when we get the patch.

[Quickening]

The list according to them is only 99% complete

Spearmen Vs Cav & 2H are listed.
Shield bug is not listed but the word is that they are fixing it. We will see.

It is somewhat disturbing that there was no mention of the tower bug.
The pikemen are also not mentioned but this does not mean that either will not be fixed. Nor for that matter does anything on the list mean that it will be fixed.

From experience we will only know what will be fixed when we get the patch.

I don't understand. I thought the pikeman issue was the same as the two-handed issue.

[Whacker]

I don't understand. I thought the pikeman issue was the same as the two-handed issue.

No it's actually different. The issue with pikemen is they don't keep poking long enough, once the formation loses any bit of cohesion, they invariably whip out their swords which and go at it, and get slaughtered in the process. If they could hold formation a bit better and switch to swords much later than they do right now, they'd last a heck of a lot longer. If you want an example, go mod out their sword secondary weapon so all they have is pikes, then run some tests. They'll kill just about anything in short order when melee starts.

[Quickening]

No it's actually different. The issue with pikemen is they don't keep poking long enough, once the formation loses any bit of cohesion, they invariably whip out their swords which and go at it, and get slaughtered in the process. If they could hold formation a bit better and switch to swords much later than they do right now, they'd last a heck of a lot longer. If you want an example, go mod out their sword secondary weapon so all they have is pikes, then run some tests. They'll kill just about anything in short order when melee starts.

Thanks for the information. But is that definately a bug or just something that a lot of people dislike?

[Whacker]

Thanks for the information. But is that definitely a bug or just something that a lot of people dislike?

Honest answer is we can't know for sure if it's a bug, but the general consensus (with very few dissenters) is that it's unintended/abnormal behavior, hence a bug. Aside from one or two folks who've posted to the contrary, everyone wants this fixed. Carl's Problemfixer addresses it, but IIRC pikes became so overpowered when you remove their secondary weapon that he had to nerf the primary attack way the heck down to compensate for it. He may be able to tell us more if he sees this.

[Foz]

Yeah, it just seems... odd, really. You'd think that the men near enough to engage the one enemy guy who has gotten in among the unit would switch to swords to dispatch him (leaving those out of sword range still to poke others/him), then go back to poking if possible. So then it seems a bit far fetched to have that one enemy guy trigger pretty much everyone busting out swords and keeping them out for the duration of the fight. We all sorta agreed that pikes are supposed to poke poke poke all day long, so at the very least their vanilla behavior is extremely undesirable, even if not a bug. Take into account that they have at least one other bug (one where when ordered to attack they simply march through the enemy unit, never lowering the pikes to try to attack) and it seems even more likely that the sword thing is not their intended behavior either.

[Whacker]

Yeah, it just seems... odd, really. You'd think that the men near enough to engage the one enemy guy who has gotten in among the unit would switch to swords to dispatch him (leaving those out of sword range still to poke others/him), then go back to poking if possible. So then it seems a bit far fetched to have that one enemy guy trigger pretty much everyone busting out swords and keeping them out for the duration of the fight. We all sorta agreed that pikes are supposed to poke poke poke all day long, so at the very least their vanilla behavior is extremely undesirable, even if not a bug. Take into account that they have at least one other bug (one where when ordered to attack they simply march through the enemy unit, never lowering the pikes to try to attack) and it seems even more likely that the sword thing is not their intended behavior either.

You know what's even screwier, I seem to recall that in RTW, when a cohort was tossing pila anyone engaged up front would stay fighting melee, people in the back would throw then draw. Am I the only one who remembers this? As such it doesn't seem to me like it'd be very hard to work out something that allows for one or two guys to pull swords and stabby stab with them while everyone else pokes. I'd also completely forgotten about the "march through" bug. /shrug

[Lorenzo_H]

Excuse me, but what were/are the "Shield bug" and the "two handed bug?" I never noticed anything awry with either, but I wasn't looking for anything at that.

[JCoyote]

Excuse me, but what were/are the "Shield bug" and the "two handed bug?" I never noticed anything awry with either, but I wasn't looking for anything at that.

2h is where some units that are supposed to be good against cavalry can't hurt them at all. It's an animation error. Bills are supposed to be superb against cavalry; if you've ever seen a team of them flail helplessly at guys on horses that's why.

Shield bug is where shield values subtract from a unit's defense in melee. It's why some units get trashed by "lesser" units. It's why units like Militia Spears can have a hard time against peasants.

[Lorenzo_H]

Now that you mention it, I had wondered why Billmen were so crap against Cavalry! lol it all makes sense now.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Carl]

Actually as a 2-hander all 2-hander bugged units, (including billmen), are suopposed to be crap vs. cav anyway.

Even with a fix they are crap as a single formed cav charge will rip them to peices. Of course, if you can tie the cav down they slaughter them once fixed...

However the 2-Hander bug means everyone with a 2-handed weapon other than a 2-handed sword that does not use spearwall, is unable to attack cav at all, and is very poor vs. infantry. Eastern Halberd Militia and JHI are the only non-sword/spear wall exception to this.

[Carl]

Wooops, Regarding pikes:

The pike problems arn't a confirmed bug and as Foz says it's VERY hard to say that it IS a bug.

Howver the behaviour is both unwanted (as oz says), and [produces serious balance issues. Pikes relly on the fact that the large number of pike points keep the enemy at bay and that the large number of low power attacks will actually kill somthing to be effective. When they switch to swords they are significanltly less effective than working 2-handers/swords. As a result once they do switch to swords they tend to be slaughtered, Even vs. bugge units they suffer badly. In fact the only reason they beat the bugged units is because they outnumber them to begin with and can ushually kill 10 or so enemy before they switch to swords.

Contrary to my prior statments the pikes don't all switch to swords as soon as one does. However, what does happen is that instead of the guy under attack switching to swords and the rest hacking, the guy being attacked, and the 2 guys to his right AND left switch as well as everyone behind them. This means theirs now a big whole into which other enemies can saunter causing the rest of the formation to switch within a couple of seconds.

The thing with the way Pikes are now is that bug or not it is unwanted and severly effects their balance. I suspect it slipped through because of other bugs.

Regarding my fix. I've currentlly only nerfed the attack by 2 as any more would leave the militia Pikes too weak. More would be prefrable.

Whilst it's personal prefrance, (and where I think pikes should sit in the balancing scheme), I have no isues with the way pikes can get 10:1 kill rates with the temp fix. But I do have issues with them killing 10 times their own numbers in just a couple of minutes. They really should take a longer amount of time to do that sort of thing.

[pike master]

my concern is that the halberds and two handed sword units which do not suffer from the two handed axe bug will become underpowered after the patch.

also even though the pikes do not work properly i am amazed just how tough they are. especially i noticed when you play against them in massed numbers in custom battles and not one on one they are harder to take down than most elite units.

however after the shield and two handed axe bug is fixed i wander with them not keeping their pikes longer if they will get slaughtered.

imo halberds and two hander swordsmen should own in most infantry melee.

however its odd that two handed swordsmen will cut cav down pretty good but halberd units cannot. a lot of stuff going on there than i cant figure out.

i guess halberd stats and animations are actually a little different than two handed swordsmen.