Hello All, and a Major Question

[Foz]

Yeah I would say it looks like it's based on the relative strength in favor of or against you, as the game calculates and displays on that balance bar before the fight. This notion is somewhat reinforced by the game files, where various triggers utilize the battle odds as opposed to the hard numbers of troops, IIRC. While I'm thinking about it, I also notice that we have determined very little about how the game determines those odds and the relative strength value of any given troopy types, or armies as a whole.

[Hollerbach]

Then there is also the issue of how re-inforcements go into the odds? Are they treated the same as the main force or scaled down in thier relative contribution?

Why I ask is I saw somthing odd yesterday. I was sieging a Spanish town with ~1000 good troops (swords, highland nobles, highlanders etc) and the town contained ~1000 militia, but there was also a full stack of ~1000 militia types of spanish next to the city. If I went to assault the town, thus facing a combine force of ~2000 troops including the re-inforcements the odds were displayed as 1:1. Fair enough, my troops were professionals so made up for lower number in quality.

What was weird was that I broke off the siege (due to the Pope) but a turn or so later was attacked by just the one stack, the one that hadn't been in the town. So now it was ~1000 militia vs ~1000 professional troops. BUT, the odds were 1:1.... The addition of 1000 extra troops (and city walls...) the first time seemed to make no difference to the odds! This is why I suspect re-inforcements are treated differently, though this is a long way from a definitive test!

[M_is_D]

Thank you all a lot for your help =)

One of you asked me to describe how I run a battle. Guess what, it's barbaric style. I start with archers from a safe distance, send all infantry units, and then all cavalry units to attack. And that's all there is. Anyone can tell this is beyond inexperienced. And yet surprisingly, I almost always manage to kill the enemy general...

(btw, I noticed that sometimes units wouldn't obey orders right. Maybe I need the patch for 1.1? If so, where to get it?)

Once again, thanks a million, you're the best =D

[Philippe]

I'm sure you know all of this already, but reviewing the basics never hurts.

Fighting a battle is about making a cascading series of yes/no decisions. Are the numbers/strengths of the two sides relatively even? Is any disparity in size great enough to influence how I’m going to go about fighting this battle? If I’m a lot stronger or weaker I’m not going to behave normally. Assuming opposing strengths are relatively even (and in some cases even if they’re not) do I want to fight a positional battle or a maneuver battle? This is where the famous Napoleonic coup d’oeuil comes in: to make this decision you have to look at the terrain while thinking about the relative composition of the opposing forces – what can I do to him, what can he do to me. If I’m badly outnumbered but much more mobile than he is -- maybe I can maneuver my entire force against one of his flanks in the style of Frederick the Great. Alternatively, maybe I should look for some set of terrain features that restricts his approach, sit behind them, and fight a defensive battle. However you arrange it, always try to fight a portion of his army with as much of your own force as possible. And keep track of where his commander is – a good decapitation strike can be the start of an army-wide panic. This was one of Alexander the Great’s secrets that he learned from reading Xenophon's Anabasis.

Somewhere along the way you’re going to have to ask yourself about relative missile troop strength and firepower. A thorough dusting with missiles can really change the odds. But I don’t want to just exchange missile fire and trade units with him unless I can make sure that I have some kind of unfair advantage like higher rate of fire, more firepower, elevated position, some kind of cover, and all of the troops in range of his missiles in open order when he’s not. Failing that, can I flatten part of his firing line with a quick cavalry charge that doesn’t get snarled up in his spearmen, doesn’t get counter-charged by his cavalry, and doesn’t get shot to pieces on the approach? And do I really want to lose fire opportunities by having my missile troops cut and run every time someone gets moderately close to them? Of course, if your enemy has lots of cavalry and/or you usually fight outnumbered, you’ll probably find yourself lining your archers up to shelter behind your spearman with stand and fight orders. Just don’t forget to tell your spearman to fire at will if they’re capable of throwing their spears.

Remember that cavalry is usually the arm of decision, and always keep a reserve. The reduced scale of the TW games makes cavalry disproportionately mobile, so one of your most important decisions is going to be how to use your cavalry. Throwing it into a head-on charge against anything that it won’t immediately route is a waste (having said that, in RTW I liked to attack large armies of peasants with only my general’s bodyguard in order to maximize the experience gain). The beauty of ridiculous mobility is that you can go zooming around your opponent’s flanks, forcing him to maneuver. If his spear wall starts moving when it’s within charging range of your cavalry, you’ve got him. As to the reserve, remember that you’ve only got a few building blocks to work with (your spear wall, your missile units, your left and right flank cavalry contingents (if you’re lucky enough to have two of them), and your reserve. Since you’re probably going to be throwing this thing at the spot where the battle is getting out of control, if your reserve is just your general’s bodyguard, you’re going to be losing him a lot. The reserve is what you win battles with, so make sure you have one.

If you want to role play a medieval Western European army, you need to ignore almost everything I’ve said. Western Europeans drew their armies up in three large formations called Battles that were stacked one behind the other. Western Europeans tended to simply hurl their Battles sequentially straight at the enemy without bothering about any unmanly maneuvering around the flanks. They fought this way because it guaranteed an unwinded reserve (very important in real life, because the horses would quickly become blown after a short charge – think of all the weight they were carrying) and because western medieval armies tended to be ad hoc affairs without much cohesion or command control, but lots of social attitude. Using these tactics against an equally powerful Byzantine, East European, or Middle Eastern army can lead to amusing results.

But whatever you do, never, ever reposition or realign your army when you're in charging range of his. Always move forward by short hops so that your battle line doesn't fall into disorder (even if you're attacking in echelon).

[Sits back and waits for the fireworks to start...]

[RoadKill]

Or you can be like me.. and don't use any battle strategies, but charge your whole dam army into the enemy and see who wins It always works for me

[Omisan]

The simplest way I can put it. Works for nearly all open terrain battles with well rounded armies against the AI...

Attack from range and cause as much damage as possible until the enemy attacks with melee units. Move your archers to the back and then you send your own melee against the enemy's.

Let the archer regroup in the back and give them targets that are not engaged in the melee to avoid friendly fire.

During this time, use your cavalry to flank or attack the rear of the enemy army. Use your cavalry on the enemy's weakest units such as missiles and light infantry, or anything that's routed and easy to kill. Only engage your cavalry in the big melee if they have nothing else left to do. Line them up properly and make them charge into the the enemy's side of melee for maximum damage.

[HoreTore]

The basic trick when trying to beat the enemy, is simply engaging them in the front with infantry, then charge them in the back with cavalry while they are fighting the infantry.

When you do that, you cause a LOT of casualties in a short time, and more importantly, you cause so much morale damage that unless they are super troops, you will start a chain rout - which is the way you win battles.

Oh, and also target the enemy general quickly, killing him makes it much more likely to break the enemy.

[M_is_D]

Once again, thanks for all the help, guys =)

If you wouldn't mind, I have a few questions now that I've tried more battles.

1. What are exactly anvil and hammer in military language? I see those terms around very often.

2. What are generally the best deployment methods?

3. In the same vein, what is the best way to start a battle when it comes to each unit?

Infinite thanks for all your help once again =)