How Much Would You Pay II

[Orda Khan]

KukriKhan,
What did you expect? Do you honestly think that people would (or should) pay extra to enjoy MP? Just think for a moment about the things you mention in your post, the things a MP game would not have to worry about, think about the SP campaign from STW until now : Loads of extras.
Now ask yourself what extras we have seen in SEVEN years of MP. MP has become progressively worse with each new game, it astonishes me when I remember playing online 4v4 with 56k.
For those who remember facing the same faction in MTW, where has that option gone? Host a game and have someone select the same faction as you who refuses to change .. "No, you change", wants to alter the teams.......The game is ruined before it begins.
Why would anyone pay extra for that?
Then, of course we have balance issues and I'm not going to go over that ground but I strongly suspect the over complicated SP for most of them.
I've already mentioned the Community Mod made by CBR and it was fantastic, you had less unit options per faction but various unit sizes per unit. The principle was simple, no upgrades just buy units to make an army. It was still possible to field many variations, the Mod could reside along with the vanilla and it was possible to play either without the need to restart via a different .exe. Here we enter into a major problem with the MP community, how many installed it? There has been a handful of players prepared to give Mods a try but there are many times that number who would not. Already in these MP sub forums we have seen the attitude of some, it only confirms what I already thought. Some will not install a Mod simply because they are programmed to dislike certain individuals who created them and are duty bound by their Clans to perpetuate this nonsense. You are quite correct in your statement....

Apparently there's little heart for suggesting possible working solutions that CA could implement - it's much more fun to snipe at existing product.

The same statement is true for Mods and those who made them. Rather than try them it is far easier to follow your Clan and post insults about others. I'd rather make up my own mind but there you go, why admit a Mod is any good when it would make you choke to do so? Would a school teacher reward a classroom of unruly children? MP will always be a headache because the community is (and always has been) divided over many issues, that is why I suggested toggles to set your own game preferences and this would be a great step IMO.
Unfortunately, the MP community is largely to blame for its own predicament, if there was a united voice from more players maybe CA would consider us. When we act like children I don't blame them for ignoring us. This is what I meant when I said "there is no MP community" but unfortunately that was taken literally and I'll admit I was at fault for not remembering English is not everyone's first language.
Puzz3D has taken a lot of stick around here for posting negatively about a game he does not play. I can understand that some are fed up of hearing it and threads regularly fall apart. So it's OK to forget the better MP of previous games? This is his main point afterall....MP was much better in original STW but I guess unless one played it one wouldn't know but there again, it's OK to ignore that fact and expect MP to just improve or to kid oneself that MP has always been like this.
After seven years of TW, I would expect quite a few improvements (call me stupid but out of appreciation for the loyal fans who paid for every game) but having to pay out more money? I'd be surprised if anyone would agree to that unless there was absolute proof that MP was vastly improved

.......Orda

[pike master]

tis true about shogun. where the ai would often faint withdraws and adjust its positions to flank you or poke at some weakness in your battle formation.

[KukriKhan]

Good points made, fellas. What I had in mind was not an add-on to an existing game - what I was trying to imagine was:

What if tw SP and MP got a divorce? So that the next Title(s) released would be China:TotalWar (the Campaign) for say $40

AND China:TotalWar (the Battles) for $19.95.

Stand-alone products.

(Doesn't hafta be China:tw, of course).

[Stig]

Nah, it should be the same game. No-one wants to buy it twice.

[Whacker]

Nah, it should be the same game. No-one wants to buy it twice.

Agreed.

BTW, how the hell does someone join in Sept 06 and already have 1.5k posts?

[Dionysus9]

Nah, it should be the same game. No-one wants to buy it twice.

I agree and disagree. First off, I never play SP. I haven't played SP since STW, and even then I only played a few campaigns. I only buy the total war series for MP. I've bought every game, retail, except for the RTW expansions. SP holds no interest for me for a number of reasons-- mostly because the AI is so pathetic, but also because I really dont enjoy the whole "empire administration" of buildings, units, tech tree stuff, taxes, diplomacy, etc. I want blood on my blade, thats it. I want to stand to the last man beside my clanmates, not count beans.

I recognize I am in the minority, but for players like myself who do not play SP-- we have to buy the whole package ($50) in order to play MP (a portion of the game CA spends 10% or less of its resources on [i.e. $5 per purchaser]). So the way I see it, I'm spending 10x more than I should on an SP game that happens to have MP tacked on as an afterthought.

The only reason I do this is because there is nobody else supplying my addiction to real-time multiplayer tactical wargaming. If the Lordz (or anyone else for that matter) can crank out a good MP game along those lines-- I'd easily pay $50 for it, and be happy.

But as it stands, I'm payin way too much for a game in which I play with probably less than 10% of the program code.

One of these days a software company is going to see the market for real time multiplayer tactical wargames and start supplying it. Once that happens, CA can kiss my $50 goodbye.

Heck, I'd even pay $100 if the game was highly moddable, the mp lobby was stable and well done, and a dedicated server was guaranteed for 5 years. But as it is, I will continue to grumble and complain and slap down my $50 for what passes for MP these days. Its like smoking resin.

*gags*

I feel so dirty.

[The Foolish Horseman]

it would be interesting to CA go down a Wplfenstein enemy territory route. Make Sp oinly game, and then a free downloadable multiplayer game. That would please the fans, but only if they improve the lobby etc

[Stig]

We all know CA goes for the big public, something which is bad for the MP gamers (yes MMO's are doing well, but as said multiple times MTW2 isn't made for that). If you really want the good MP games, and don't care much about the SP, you should take a game like Take Command: 2nd Manassas and make a MP ability for it. This still is the hardcore game, made for a small but select public. This still is the essence of a game and only has what it need to have. Some like it some don't, but overall games like this are the best, even tho they don't have good sales figures.

Mostlikely the new game by Lordz Game Studio will be the same. It's isn't well known by the gaming public, as they will never make it into the game magazines (or if they do they only get a fourth of a page to have a review. Plus they get low marks for Graphics and things (well this Lordz game might be different)). So even know these games are good, and what some players want, they will never find them. Hell, Lordz Game Studio uses some engine made by Slitherine Strategies , but have you ever seen any of these games in the normal stores. I know I haven't. Type a title at Amazon.com, even they don't have them, and normally you can find anything there.

[pike master]

me dinks lordz mite pull it off.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Personally I cant wait for the lordz new game. NTW is the best mod ever made for VI. THe lordz actually play the game and are constantly upgrading it. I expect the same from them with this effort. As for slitherene their games seem decent to me
http://www.slitherine.com/GameIndex.htm

Didnt they make the original Dune?

In fact when this game comes out I doubt ill be playing any more CA games. I expect many aggonies and other NTW supporters will also run out and grab this game,

[Orda Khan]

Good points made, fellas. What I had in mind was not an add-on to an existing game - what I was trying to imagine was:

What if tw SP and MP got a divorce? So that the next Title(s) released would be China:TotalWar (the Campaign) for say $40

AND China:TotalWar (the Battles) for $19.95.

Stand-alone products.

(Doesn't hafta be China:tw, of course).

Better still would be one complete game containing separate SP and MP stats created by a team consisting of dedicated SP and MP staff. Maybe even separate patch fixes for SP and MP too?

........Orda

[Whacker]

I'll throw this last bit in and be quiet.

Yunus made my point exactly, the community is too fragmented on what individuals want to see exactly in the way of multiplayer. I respectfully submit that there are certainly common grounds that we all can agree on. I think one of these major points is game openness and modability. The fact that CA has decided to keep so much of this game's functionality locked away in the code which we have no access to exacerbates the problems we're discussing here exponentially. If we all had access to the game's clientside sources and a valid SDK that we can use to change game mechanics, everyone could be satisfied in that people could make MP mods to their taste and balance as they see fit. Witness what's happened with BF2 and BF2142, etc, hardly anyone plays the base game anymore, almost everyone plays some kind of mod. This would also fix quite a few of the SP community's gripes, IMO. Guess I just see the root cause of these problems perhaps a bit differently than others may.

Lastly, what Orda said and I've pointed out before is really a must at this point. SP and MP game mechanics/values must be separated. The nature of the two beasts and the differing desires of the players of each simply doesn't allow for what CA's done at this point anymore. They absolutely must be split logically within the game if CA wants to succeed down the road.

Respectfully

[guyfawkes5]

I agree with Orda above, that the MP community has made it's own bed and has to lay in it so to speak; the ones that moan and whine about the state of the current Total War games also do nothing about it, seeing as it's far less tiring and far more fun to huddle up and whisper nasties about the game than actually attempt constructive action. CA doesn't want to deal with a community that attacks each other so often, and I don't see the situation changing in the near future to be honest...

I don't think the idea of two seperate games for retail would work too well, as CA or your 'average' gamer wouldn't see much point in seperating the two aspects of the same game. The game engine would be present in both of them, so in a way you'd be paying for the product twice. Plus, as numerously mentioned by some of our more esteemed members here, CA knows the active MP community is miniscule at the moment so I doubt they'd create a retail version of their game for such a small market. I think this idea is just a manifestation of people wanting CA to put more effort into the multiplayer section of their game, and I think healing the rifts between the current patrons of MP would go further towards that than the current idea here, no offence.

Although perhaps a workable variation of this, as mentioned above, is a downloadable multiplayer version of the game akin to Alexander (monthly subscriptions tend to only work for RPGs). You could put a few dedicated programmers together to compile a 'multiplayer add-on' for the current Total War game, with balance and multiplayer functionability as priorities. Perhaps more multiplayer maps coupled with a possible MP campaign could be on the cards too? I'm pretty certain that CA could make up for the costs of developing the add-on if enough of the MP community showed interest (and dragged some of the 'old guard' back too).

BTW, how the hell does someone join in Sept 06 and already have 1.5k posts?

Because he's the Stig. :D

[RtkBedivere]

sry im way to lazy to read all that except the first couple of posts but i would gladdy pay $60 for a fully multiplayer supported TW game.

[Denali]

me 2 but CA would have to improve a loooooot