What is the most challenging faction to play?

[Intranetusa]

What is the most challenging civilized faction to play?

What is the most challenging barbarian faction to play?


I'm asking cuz Rome was too east on VH campaign/M battle... >_<



Also, why do all Roman ships have only 26 soldiers in them (from basic to elite ships) while the upkeep goes to to 2000 per turn?

[Danest]

As far as I can tell, Saba stands little to no chance if sandwiched between angry double-team Seleukid and Ptolemaic full assaults.

[QwertyMIDX]

The number on each ship represents ships, not soldiers or rowers or anything. Each unit is a squadron, not a single ship.

[Elminster12]

Probably Saka-Rauka. You have to fight with Baktria almost immediately with a weak land base....unless, of course, you feel happy sitting on Bin-kath and possibly Sulek for a couple decades...with a skeletal army. At least the most the Sauromatae have to fear is Parthia sending crappy spearmen at Gava-Aursa...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Hmm, yes that's true, I played as the Saka once - I only lasted a few turns before I finally gave up after complete loss of my army to Baktria and suffering 100,000 mnami of debt with minus 4,000 per turn.

[The Errant]

Can you imagine a grey horde of phalangites coming towards you. Accompanied by peltastai, Syrian archers, and Katapractoi. Can you see them rolling towards you like an endless wave, coming to crush your hopes and dreams of conquest and glory.
Can you see yourself with a handful of skirmishers and unit of your generals bodyguard, standing alone, with no allies against that.
A lone squad of heavy infantry, facing a horde of grey, with more soldiers holding pikes than you can afford in a lifetime. Can you see them coming time and again. No matter how many of their brethren you have laid to rest in the endless sand dunes of the desert.
They just keep coming. And coming...
If this is your version of hell?

Welcome to playing the Sabyn... an unending exercise of hopelessness and frustration.

The Saka, if anything, may even be worse off than the Sabyn.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

What do you mean by challenging?
Do you want difficult finances with few troops and little money? Try Saka Rauka
Do you like constant battles against superior numbers and quality? Try Saba
If you want a difficult game, but not get that, "Stop cheating, AI!" feeling. Try Pontus or Armenia.

[Watchman]

Armenia has a habit of turning into an exercise in massacring Seleucid stacks economically along the Phraaspa-Armavir road, certainly.

[Pelopidas]

Pontus is extremely difficult, yes.
Altought, the gallics factions are an interesting challenge, as the Arverni/Aedui played by the AI can replace is casualties, and you, not, by the all-mighty economic law of debt :p

I hate to play Saka, Pahlav and Sauromatae due to their economic gasp...when you have to wait 80 turns to get back in a good financial status, you're quite upset.
Same thing for the Lusitanian.

For the Sabean, I have succesfully tested a new technic of warfare: letting my populations expands the quickest I can, and then offering the cities to the Seleukids when is mighty hosts appears, then, sending a wave of spies...and there you have you're army of experienced soldiers !

Very sneaky, I conceid.

For the challenge, I stay nevertheless on the Pontos.
For the barbaric nation...mmmh...Saka.

[-Praetor-]

Try any gallic faction, specially th Aeduii. Once the germans emerge from their forests, simoultaneously with the romans pressing from the south, you end up fighting an extremely challenging 2 front war. And beware of iberia! One can only guess what comes from that direction!

[Yun Dog]

I would say the Ptolemaics are pretty difficult to play

they start the game at war with the most powerful faction in the game - the Arche Selukids - who have heaps of provices and the ability to build elite units from the get go. They wont make peace and they will come with in the first few turns with huge stacks of elite phalanx and spears - trying to hold them you have no money - one city that can produce medium level phalanx and spears and the rest is leves and natives - holding them back is like holding back the sea - they never stop coming

goto be the hardest games Ive played thus far

[Elminster12]

Pontus is extremely difficult, yes.
Altought, the gallics factions are an interesting challenge, as the Arverni/Aedui played by the AI can replace is casualties, and you, not, by the all-mighty economic law of debt :p

I hate to play Saka, Pahlav and Sauromatae due to their economic gasp...when you have to wait 80 turns to get back in a good financial status, you're quite upset.
Same thing for the Lusitanian.

For the Sabean, I have succesfully tested a new technic of warfare: letting my populations expands the quickest I can, and then offering the cities to the Seleukids when is mighty hosts appears, then, sending a wave of spies...and there you have you're army of experienced soldiers !

Very sneaky, I conceid.

For the challenge, I stay nevertheless on the Pontos.
For the barbaric nation...mmmh...Saka.

Pontos is simply a question of, "When are they going to besiege Amaseia?" And, of course, "How much do you want to push your luck today?" You expand to at least Sinope and Trapezous, as they're out of the way of Seleukid aggression. If you're feeling particularly ballsy...Nikaia too. All at the same time. The catch-22 with that is Nikaia needs a serious garrison as well....and you can't leave Trapezous and Sinope without garrisons. IMO, this is why Pontos is tougher than Armenia...you have more soldiers tied down in garrison duty, as your cities suffer from sizable culture penalties. The other is that none of your cities start with mines(like Armavir.) Of course....the essential problem is still the same....the Seleukids. By the same token, the Armenians start with a smaller army and their good horse troops are more expensive to maintain than phalanges.

Of course....you could just screw all that and try bumrushing the Seleukids Your recruitment in Mazaka is pretty sexy, after all....

[Pelopidas]

Yeah, but with your phalanx, you can let an army on the river crossings, to challenge the Seleukid with your bare hands.

Ptolemaic, difficult ?!
I never experienced any problem with them, indeed, you have to support the most furious and early Seleukid attacks, but you have the money to get the good mercs and to expands Alexandria barracks immediatly.

[Orb]

I would say the Ptolemaics are pretty difficult to play

they start the game at war with the most powerful faction in the game - the Arche Selukids - who have heaps of provices and the ability to build elite units from the get go. They wont make peace and they will come with in the first few turns with huge stacks of elite phalanx and spears - trying to hold them you have no money - one city that can produce medium level phalanx and spears and the rest is leves and natives - holding them back is like holding back the sea - they never stop coming

goto be the hardest games Ive played thus far

Seeing as I effortlessly took Antioch on turn three and didn't face real trouble after that, I probably haven't played far enough, but I'd say they are pretty easy financially and militarily compared to any non-Roman.

In my humble opinion, the Aedui are probably tougher than the Arverni and will suffer from heavy problems. Pontos is probably the hardest 'civilised' faction as they have absolutely no cash, must fight the Seleucids before they can seriously expand and recover their cash with a handful of pantadopoi phalangitai and skirmishers (I disbanded most of my phalangites early to keep my finances going). It ain't easy.

[QwertyMIDX]

Why are the Aedui harder than the Arverni? Because of the early inevitable conflict with Rome? If you can hold out with them they actually have a slightly better unit roster than the Arverni.

[Watchman]

And beware of iberia! One can only guess what comes from that direction!

Dosidatadatadataskeli ?

[Orb]

Why are the Aedui harder than the Arverni? Because of the early inevitable conflict with Rome? If you can hold out with them they actually have a slightly better unit roster than the Arverni.

It's the initial divided provinces, I think. The Arverni I played briefly on this build and it took virtually no time to remove the Aedui from main Gaul, while as the Aedui, it took quite a while.

[NeoSpartan]

Why are the Aedui harder than the Arverni? Because of the early inevitable conflict with Rome? If you can hold out with them they actually have a slightly better unit roster than the Arverni.

Well u have 2 things going against you:

1st ur 3 provinces are divided and you have scattered troops in the south that take a few turns to put in position.

But the real problem is that by 268BC the Romans will siege your city in northern Italy AND (1) if you have not finished off the Arverni and (2) have something close to a full stack. You might as well give up 'cuase the Roman war machine is unrelenting.

Another thing is that u no longer have:
-Snow or Wood Bonus
-Warcry Bonus
---CAN WE GET THESE TWO BACK??????!!!!!!!!!!
-No Gagaestrae (sp) mercs. and u need MIC 4 to get Gagaestrae (sp).

However, you have 1 settlement with MIC 3 and 1 ex-Arverni settlement with MCI 3.

I did it on VH/M... without "exesive strategic abuse" on my part.

Also I recommend Large or Medium settings for the Aedui. IF you play in Huge (like I am right now) you will get in debt faster and deeper, thus taking you longer to get out of dept.

[Danest]

The Epirotes are a very strong faction, if you can use their elephants properly. But they do appear to be fighting an 8-front war, or something like that, at the beginning. It's truly amazing how many countries with which Phyrrus apparently felt the need to be at war at one time. I suspect it's only because only your neighbors actually take that war-state seriously that the Epirotes survive the beginning of the game. I'd hate to think of what would happen if Rome, Greece, Carthage, Seleukids, Makedon, and Getai all somehow were smart enough to immediately blitz into the Epirotes - but most of them just want to make peace as soon as possible, if you don't hit them. SO, er, be sure to hit them. ;)

[Pelopidas]

For the Aedui,I have discovered that Massilia with it's huge walls is a very effective fortress against Roman oppression, when you take the battle yourself.

Epire...I love them ! Fortify Tarent, or forget Italy.
For the Makedons and the KH, Pyrhus and his elephants are enough.