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Thread: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

  1. #541

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl
    @Bob: sounds like theirs a bug in the faction standings file.

    @everyone else: 'm stil around and loving the feedback,. but i'm stuck in a kind of limbo as I can't really do much else to V1.25 without the patch to test things on.

    Keep the feedback coming though.

    You still playing vonsch, (play what you like now, i've nothing pressing that needs doing)?

    Haven't played in days, no. Been reading instead, and waiting for 1.2 also. I don't feel like upgrading/patching until it's official.

    Sort of stressing out waiting to hear if I'm employed again too . Supposed to hear on two potential conflicts any day. If they come through my play time will plummet though.

  2. #542
    Senior Member Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Thnx for the update Vonsch, and TBH i haven't played a single game of M2TW since the early part of the wee either. Been playing Star Wars X-Wing Alliance or reading too, (have about 300-400 books to choose from so got plenty to go at ).

    Don't worry about the possible drop off in playing time, it's one of those things and I hope you get the job myself.

    I'm actually in the same boat, waiting for a letter saying i have an interview. (Should get one though as it was the concentrate that set it up and they told them they where interested in interviewing me, they just need to get a few more candidates so the make sure they've got a decent number of people to interview).
    Find my ProblemFixer Purehere.

    This ProblemFixer fixes the following: 2-Hander bug, Pike Bug, Shield Bug, Chasing Routers, Cav not Charging, Formation Keeping Improved, Trait Bugs, and Ancillary Bugs.

    BETA Testers needed for the current version of RebuildProblemFixer. Thread here

  3. #543

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Chugging away with the French campaign - quite an enjoyable campaign it is too!

    Noticed problem with French unit roster : have Noble Knights and Chivalric Knights available - but they have exactly the same stats, apart from the Noble ones being more expensive in the upkeep department. (Shurley shome mishtake?)

    Also Unhorsed knights are just crusader foot knights - dammit they even reply "crusaders" when you click on them.

    merchants - only rarely see anyone else's - which is odd considering the vast amounts they bring in in the v1.24 mod.

    Mongols and Egyptians keep attacking jerusalem - well the Mongols seem to have given up after I destroyed 4 stacks with my tower cannon fire.

    Noticed both when attacking and defending that artillery seems to be radar controlled - rarely misses even on first shot. In one battle I was defending a settlement - Edinburgh - from a Scottish army that materialised out of nowhere - complete with trebs, cats, mortars, bombard and siege equipment. I had the best part of a well-equipped army to defend the place but didn't bother putting people on the walls thinking they'd get shot to pieces by all the scottish guns.

    Not so, the grande bombard wheeled itself out the front door, and destroyed the trebs, cats, bombard and most of the mortars without taking a hit. Every shot was a direct hit on target. Also took out the 2 siege towers before the remaining scottish infantry attacked behind a single ram. (and therefore were so slow that I retreated my GB inside the settlement before it could be overrun.) Meanwhile I rushed all my infantry to the gate and missiles to the walls, where after a hard struggle the scots were destroyed.

    Elsewhere Ragusa fell (to me) after a long siege, I tried attacking with my siege artillery but after getting a catapult destroyed by cannon fire from the towers before it could get within range I quit and decided to sit it out. The Danes have been driven from Hamburg and Arhus, Metz remains in my hands and Antwerp has survived another murderous attack - the Danes make excellent attacking forces! The Sots are eliminated, Venice now only has Durrazzo (sp?)

    The Mongols are spreading north from Antioch, Egypt stays in Egypt (and Acre) and now the Timurids have been announced. Hopefully they'll see off the Mongols but at a heavy price! HRE, Sicily, Byzzies and the Pope remain my friends and Spain, Portugal and myself share Iberia. Poland, Russia are still in the game too.

  4. #544
    Senior Member Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Regarding Noble Knights: they'll be getting AP secondary melee attacks in the next version.


    Regarding artillery: The flaming/exploding shots of all cannon/bombard types ARE 100% accurate ATM, the trouble is that if you set it to even 95% it misses so much that the anti-infantry power is virtually pointless.

    Bombards DO have a small area of effect though so it's infantry killing power isn't as high as you'd think.

    However as noted, siege engines appear to be easily hit, I'll look into this.
    Find my ProblemFixer Purehere.

    This ProblemFixer fixes the following: 2-Hander bug, Pike Bug, Shield Bug, Chasing Routers, Cav not Charging, Formation Keeping Improved, Trait Bugs, and Ancillary Bugs.

    BETA Testers needed for the current version of RebuildProblemFixer. Thread here

  5. #545

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    minor point

    noticed that there's a wee lake next to oslo - can sail a ship into it, but it won't come out again! Had to disband it.

    otherwise campaign continuing - egypt and mongols still haven't been able to get close to Jerusalem, the only way to fight a proper battle is to let them besiege it and not use the sallying forth / let the cannon towers do the work tactic. Mind you, I lost my king last night - sallied forth to run down some routing Mongol archers and got himself killed - the only loss from his bodyguard and a unit of lancers

    Have now captured Tunis, tripoli and Alexandria from the egyptians and Algiers from the Moors. Mongols and Timurids are circling around eachother around mosul, and baghdad. According to the map the Timurids won an heroic battle against the Mongols out that way. Have upgraded units in Jerusalem to arquebusiers and voulgier and lancers, but kept some crossbow and spear units as well.

    Elsewhere Denmark is reduced to Frankfurt with a full-stack garrison and full-stack army alongside. not looking forward to fighting them. Sicily has woken up (c 1240) by attacking HRE in Bologna - after HRE removed the 2 full-stack armies it had stationed there. Don't know where they went. Pope has been quiet, not much by way of ex-comms. Seen a few more merchants from other factions. Mongol diplomats are definite pain - have bribed 2 of my armies so far in Europe but no garrisons. Portugal has Marrakesh and much of Iberia. Spain has Toledo. venice is left with Thessalonika (I think) Out east Russia and Poland continue (Hungary has been eliminated.) Not sure how far the mongols stretch into the balkans, but Turkey and the Byzzies are still in the game.

    next on the to-do list - finish off the Moors and Egypt and capture crete (still held by rebels) and Frankfurt. If can also hang onto Jerusalem as well that should see me to the 45 regions I need to capture.

  6. #546
    Member Member Bongaroo's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    scotland is an easy campaign. I quit the polish one from shear frustration. I autoresolved a defensive battle (stupid me) and lost my only port. I was basicly losing money and at war with everyone. Was fun to fight for survival and go guerrilla but after a while I was losing the war of attrition. Got boring after a lot of turns of that over and over.

    So I started a Scottish campaign. I've kicked the English off the island and am currently raking in money and preparing a mainlain invasion of scottish hordes. lol.

  7. #547
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    I have been thinking on the whole Trusted Alliances thing...

    Basically I think it is a great idea, but I am not sure why it is linked to reputation. Sure you need a good reputation to get alliances and other agreements in the first place, but once you have the alliance, if you do the things necessary to keep the relationship with that faction at excellent or above (for example) then surely that should be enough for a trusted alliance. I mean you could have a bad overall reputation but if you have maintained any alliance for many turns and done the things necessary to keep the relationship rating up then surely if does not matter that your reputation has dropped to deceitful, I mean to order to maintain the relationship you can't have done anything bad to your ally right?

    I an just thinking with the AI tending to go the bad guy route it might help to disasociate reputation with the Trusted Alliance. Sure make it really hard to get any alliance with you are deceitful or worse, but once it is in place I fell that the individual relationship with your ally should take precidence over your universal reputation...

    If possible you could also link a bad reputation to a continual decline in relationships. This would still make life harder for the dread path and again could make things to hard for the AI...

    Just a thought...

  8. #548

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Hurrah - sort of.

    Completed the big campaign as France in year 1245AD

    My huge battle against the danes turned out to be a walk-over.

    Killed the faction heir in a skirmish, fought on some amazing mountain terrain NE of metz, s of frankfurt.

    Then sandwiched the faction leader and his full-stack army outside Frankfurt between 2 full-stack armies of my own (having besieged Frankfurt itself.) Let the pootah control the 2nd French army whilst took control of the 1st. Lined up my army - with lots of scotch guard and aventarios (sp?) in front and faced the danes, whilst the 2nd army bombarded them with catapult fire from behind. Killed 97% of the Danish army with missile fire. Total casualties (mine) 7 - of which 4 were from "friendly fire" when I sent my cav in pursuit of the routing remnants. Frankfurt then became a rebel settlement which meant it was a simple job to take it.

    My grand plans (above) from expanding my empire were put to one side when the Pope ex-comm'ed HRE. So I simply mopped up 4 German cities and settlements and hey presto - Victory.

    ----------------------

    Overall comments.

    If Problemfixer 1.24 is meant to make the game more challenging then I think it fails. For the following reasons:

    1) Cannon towers, once these are introduced it becomes impractical for the either the human player or the AI to attack anywhere with them. Unless you auto-resolve, in which case they are ignored. Takes the fun out of attacking places. From a human player's PoV, what I think is required is the possibility of success or failure in evenly matched battles. Reducing the accuracy of cannon towers and artillery firing flaming shot would help balance the battles.

    2) The rapid-fire arrow towers can be dealt with by using the ballista / cannon tower tower fix. This looks and feels so much better, and makes for a better battle. From a player's PoV the fun is in controlling your troops, not in letting the walls and towers do the work for you.

    3) Merchants. The amount of florins one gets has been massively boosted in ProblemFixer. Bad move. Main reason being that once you have built enough trade buildings and merchants and discovered where the most lucrative places are you can rake in 30,000+ florins a turn just from merchants. By the end of the game I was building in every settlement and recruiting troops just to spend the money. Means the human player can build several full-stack armies and rebuild damaged units almost immediately. The end-game becomes too easy.

    4) Good points - well the alliances and diplomacy seems more sensible, ie the non-human controlled factions tend to keep more to alliances - Mine held with the Byzzies, Poland, Russia, Sicily, Spain and Pope right through the game. Ceasefires worked well too - even the Mongols negotiated one with me when they were attacked by the Timurids (these latter however never really got going, just wandering around outside Baghdad and Mosul, having the odd battle with the Mongols. They even let the Egyptians conquer Baghdad in a jihad.) However one could say this reliability makes for a more predictable game. More randomness might make for interesting strategy.

    5) Open field battles are sensible (ie the balance between units seems OK, there's no nasty surprises from under-powered units destroying units that should be superior.) Passive AI is still a problem though (eg the Mongol cavalry army that simply stood still for an entire battle rather than attack an inferior army, and the danish army that sat down next to the central plaza rather than attack the remaining defenders.) Chasing down routing units can still be a pain, especially if the routing unit is thinly spread out over a large distance. And too often cavalry will simply tickle retreating units with their pointed sticks rather than charge home.

    6) If you want to make for a more difficult challenge, then limiting all factions to 1 settlement to begin with might be interesting. Secondly make rebel settlements grow and develop more rapidly. Overloading key settlements with massive garrisons seems retrograde. But they should increase the garrisons by the same amount as a human player would (ie limited by what buildings are available.) (Don't know how feasible that is.) Definitely need to sort out the problem of settlements that can't grow properly - Rennes, Zagreb and Stockholm have all had that problem.

    7) The turns / years problem is difficult to sort out. Personally I like the idea of characters ageing in line with the game time. However this means you have to sort out the time it takes for buildings to be created, movement allowances etc in line. The increased movement allowance for characters in problemFixer look reasonable, if maybe even a little overgenerous. I'd even like the time taken to build buildings to more directly related to size of population, with more fine tuning, but that's probably more trouble than it's worth and maybe not even do-able.

    ------

    Anyway, that's all by the by, as once the official 1.2 patch is out we'll all have anew baseline from which to suggest / make / test mods.

  9. #549
    Ricardus Insanusaum Member Bob the Insane's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl
    @Bob: sounds like theirs a bug in the faction standings file.

    I am not sure that is the case...

    I have been playing an unmodded campaign as Venice for reference and I have noted in that your relationship with your allies appears to continually improve over time (though not as quickly as in your 1.25)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rozanov
    1) Cannon towers, once these are introduced it becomes impractical for the either the human player or the AI to attack anywhere with them. Unless you auto-resolve, in which case they are ignored. Takes the fun out of attacking places. From a human player's PoV, what I think is required is the possibility of success or failure in evenly matched battles. Reducing the accuracy of cannon towers and artillery firing flaming shot would help balance the battles.
    Just FYI the 1.25 build appears to introduce a little more inaccuracy back into the siege engines...

    One point I think is interesting is whether making sieges harder is making the game harder... Playing vanilla (well with 1.02) I suddenly find myself losing settlements to the AI again because if you do not maintain a sufficiently large garrison then that one ladder and RAM could be enough to get them enemy force inside (cities and small castles). At which point 3 or 4 untis of Town Militia just don't cut it... I would be interested in see the effect of reducing the fire output of the towers again but leaving the activation radius in place (as it is nice to have the defenses doing something without having a large garrison).

    Ladders are really the most insidious element as the are all but impossible to destroy on the way in...
    Last edited by Bob the Insane; 04-26-2007 at 17:29.

  10. #550

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    An interesting point about what is needed to make the game harder. (or just make it last longer?)

    (Am waiting for the official 1.2 patch BTW as I have to get someone to DL for me)

    For me the game lasts longer if the player plays out most of the battles - and it means more player involvement. In a sense it's not so much the number of turns as the hours it takes. Therefore if the game is such that battles will tend to autoresolved then that makes for a shorter game, and one that isn't so much fun.

    Now you can't write the game so that the player will always be facing an equal or better army, but making sieges (for example) difficult but winnable by having AI garrisons that are at least half-stack but having vanilla towers means the player thinks that it's worth playing the battle out. Equally the player should take the time and effort to defend their settlements /castles with a reasonable force and not rely on the walls and towers to do all the work.

    Another point if you want to make the game more difficult then an obvious way is to limit the number of units the player can recruit / rebuild each turn and the number of free units. Equally keeping the revenue from merchants lower means the player has to make more difficult choices on how to spend their money. I suspect people will also take more "care" over their armies if they can't simply rebuild them immediately after each battle. FWIW I'd prefer a lower limit on the number of elite units that can be recruited - say 1 of each type at any one time from any 1 castle. Would also stop the spamming of specialist elite units and force players to utilise a wider range of troop types, making for more interesting battles.

    Realise that getting any balance right is very difficult, especially if the AI has to play by the same rules as the human player. makes you realise also that CA had a near impossible job trying to balance the various game elements in a way that pleased every player.

  11. #551
    Senior Member Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Just dropping a comment in to let you know I'm still watching things. Just can't do much without a new version and I can't do that without the damm patch, shouldn't be long though now with a bit of luck.

    Regarding easy siege defenses, it's a double edged sword. I specifically WANTED defenses to be easy, (although the thing about cannon towers IS worrying), primarily because it would make life harder on the player when they where ATTACKING the AI. The problem is the auto-resolve bug lets you auto-resolve your way around the worst of the losses. If auto-resolving was more costly as well when I buffed the towers it would work.

    On the other hand, I DO still think towers are a bit OTT in defense, so a Nerf is still in order.

    As mentioned before, without 2-3 units of Trebs you aren't really expected to be able to get through Large/Huge Stone walls with just one stack, the trouble is the AI still isn't using enough artillery. 1.2 might help their too though as I hear the AI is much smarter about army composition.

    Regarding overmuch money, thats an ongoing issue with vanilla too. What percentage of your income where merchants making up? If it was 20% or less then i'm not too worried, (allthough overall income does need to drop as you mentioned), if it was more we have an issue.
    Find my ProblemFixer Purehere.

    This ProblemFixer fixes the following: 2-Hander bug, Pike Bug, Shield Bug, Chasing Routers, Cav not Charging, Formation Keeping Improved, Trait Bugs, and Ancillary Bugs.

    BETA Testers needed for the current version of RebuildProblemFixer. Thread here

  12. #552

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Been playing moors.

    6 regions to start with - off to a flier and grab spain and portugal before they get started, and take tunis and tripoli.

    within about 20 turns one has got a complete corner of the map (before the new world appears anyway)

    noticed that there's some weird unit symbols down timbuktu and arguin way. looks like roman peasants have been recruited to stand in for sudanese archers? (Soz - should have loaded the game up and checked exact units)

    Anyway after a couple of sessions England is destroyed and I'm at war with France and Scotland.

    Noticed that the ballista / cannon fix totally silences archer towers - ie they don't seem to fire at all on citadels and fortresses?

    Had a quick read through the modding article on path-finding -

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=82397

    fascinating stuff. many moons ago i was trying to program a much simpler version of this sort of game using QLBasic and getting into a terrible muddle in trying to work out pathing algorithms. I really should have done a comp sci degree.

    Shame CA don't spell out exactly how they do things like this - maybe they don't want competitors to copy their work.

    anyway enjoying the moorish challenge - missed out on jihad, the egyptians got to baghdad before me.

  13. #553

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    More on the Moorish campaign.

    1) make that nubian archers being roman peasants in disguise.

    2) AAArggh - Them blooming danes again. Had a full-stack army in Dijon, got destroyed by a full-stack Danish army - simply there's nothing I have as Moors that can stand up to Obershaer, especially in town battles. At least in citadels etc one had multiple levels of walls which help, but with only one level of walls, once a breach is made (and assuming the attacking army doesn't go to sleep) there's very little I can do to stop them. (Apart from capture their settlements and citadels - dumb AI left Arhus completely empty and had 1 unit garrisoning Hamburg. Don't know if the new patch fixes this but it needs sorting out.)

    3) Bridge battles -could someone please tell the AI not to push catapults over the blooming bridge but set them up on the opposite bank to the human player and pound the daylights out of the defending forces. Ditto xbowman. OK it's nice to get a heroic victory destroying 2 armies for the loss of 70 men as the Moors but even so..

    4) notice someone has come up with a fix for the AI standing in range of towers

    You can mod this by the way. In config_ai_battle look for this line:

    Code:

    <defend-sally-out>
    <!-- reform to this amount times the tower range --> <tower-range-scale>1.5</tower-range-scale>
    </defend-sally-out>
    by jambo in thread:

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=84399

  14. #554

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Grinding on with the Moors

    Got 35 regions so not doing badly but am getting seriously bogged down in central europe fighting Milan and the Pope and Denmark.

    Further to the cannon /ballista tower bug fix. Definitely doesn't work properly with problemfixer as I've had ocassions when the towers have totally refused to fire anything even if there are troops on the walls. You can even see the ballistas sticking out the towers but nothing happens.

    Had a totally insane battle with the Pope over Genoa. Settlement had been battered by Milan several times but managed to hang on but the units were pretty ragged and I couldn't get many reinforcements in at any one time.

    Anyway the Pope attacks with a full stack of heavy duty infantry - papal guard, unhorsed knights etc. My militia spears put up heroic resistance at the walls but got overwhelmed. I was left with the remnants of about 10 units back at the plaza, with 80% losses. The Pope had only taken about 25% losses. So he sends 1 unit of papal guard to take the central plaza. The rest hang around the main gate, partaking of refreshments, sight-seeing etc.

    Anyway the single unit of papal guard slowly destroys what's left of my army in the central plaza. Until there is a 4 man desert archer unit left. At which point the papal guard unit turns around and leaves the plaza. Thinks about it and attacks, killing another archer, stops, retires and then stops. Comes back a third time and attacks the 2 remaining archers. Having killed one (and leaving me with a single bod in the plaza) they decide it's time for tea, everyone back to the main gate and off they march. Soon after the game times out and I've won a close victory. No idea what in the AI makes it do this but it is really dumb.

    Apart from that I'm hanging on to Metz, but have lost Dijon to the danes and no sign of recovering it either. Scotland, at least is no more and I've taken oslo, so Stockholm will be next. Luckily I've upgraded my spanish settlements so they can churn out urban militia - hope they can take on Europe's finest.

  15. #555

    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    Having sent everyone to sleep with my postings I'll keep this one short:

    The official 1.2 patch has now been released into the wild.

    I hope to get a copy sent to me sometime next week, at which point I can get the new and improved problemfixer!

    (Oh forgot to mention in my Moorish campaign - had 2 full-stack armies besieging the last Scottish castle - nottingham. it had the king and mix of artillery and average infantry. According to the pre-battle screen I had 70-80% superiority so I auto-resolved and got a crushing defeat both times. So I played it out, not letting the AI control my reinforcements. I walked it, didn't even need the 2nd army. Must be something somewhere that gives extra bonus to defenders if last settlement or has king in control?

    academic but the cannon/ballista fix did work with cannon towers.

    ------------------------------

    perhaps we need a new thread for the post-1.2 patch (official) problem fixer?)

  16. #556
    Senior Member Senior Member Carl's Avatar
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    Default Re: V1.21 Rebuild-ProblemFixer BETA testing thread

    perhaps we need a new thread for the post-1.2 patch (official) problem fixer?)
    Good idea, I'm just downloading the patch now though. Should be 24 hours or so to get the patch installed an check the current 1.2 compatbile vershion for bugs.
    Find my ProblemFixer Purehere.

    This ProblemFixer fixes the following: 2-Hander bug, Pike Bug, Shield Bug, Chasing Routers, Cav not Charging, Formation Keeping Improved, Trait Bugs, and Ancillary Bugs.

    BETA Testers needed for the current version of RebuildProblemFixer. Thread here

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