The Battle of Bibracte - 58 BC

**Anthony** · 03-08-2007, 05:46

The Helvetii weren't German, they were Celts from the Alps. They were migrating due to pressure from Germans. The movement was planned by the Helveti king Orgetorix, who died before the migration began, while raising an army to fight a revolt. The revolt was spawned by his conspiring with Dumnorix and Casticus to split Gaul between the three of them; the people didn't like the plan, and plotted to arrest him, try him, and have him executed if found guilty. He discovered that, rose an army of 10,000 men, but died while they were massing, likely due to suicide. The Helvetii went ahead with the migratory plan though.

**abou** · 03-08-2007, 06:13

Hunh, my bad on that. Because they were from what is now Switzerland, I assumed they were German. Since they are Celtic, my new assumption is that they would use Celtic troops, but were there any Germanic influences? What about the Boii and Tulingi?

**Anthony** · 03-08-2007, 07:01

'Switzerland' was all Celts and demi-Celts at the time, though Germans had begun pressing in. The Boii were all Celts, but they sometimes had Germanic allies or vassals. Germans didn't inhabit that much of Europe at the time. Their tribes had only begun spreading out of Scandinavia a few centuries earlier, and it was a pretty slow slog till they controlled as far as the Rhine, and something southern territories, but early Germans simply don't inhabit much outside of north-central Europe. Celts inhabited an awful lot of Europe though that would later be Germanic due to successive waves of invasions and migrations.

**abou** · 03-08-2007, 07:06

Thank you greatly, Anthony. That would have been quite embarrassing to have put all this effort into making the battle only to find out that I used a completely wrong group for those forces.

**Ypoknons** · 03-08-2007, 16:29

There is a Helvetii unit in the game - the Mori Gaesum. I'm not sure if they were at Bibracte, though.

**CountArach** · 03-09-2007, 02:33

Originally Posted by Ypoknons

There is a Helvetii unit in the game - the Mori Gaesum. I'm not sure if they were at Bibracte, though.

I believe that they were because Caesar mentions his enemy forming a "phalanx". The Mori Gaesum use a sort of tightly grouped men that represent a phalanx.

**PSYCHO V** · 03-09-2007, 05:07

Originally Posted by Anthony

The revolt was spawned by his conspiring with Dumnorix and Casticus to split Gaul between the three of them; the people didn't like the plan, and plotted to arrest him, try him, and have him executed if found guilty. He discovered that, rose an army of 10,000 men, but died while they were massing, likely due to suicide. The Helvetii went ahead with the migratory plan though.

It needs to be mentioned that the civil war had all but destroyed Gaul. Many Gauls had long been aware of the state of weakness they endured and thus aware of the growing threat of intervention from their neighbours, eg. Ariovistus (Germans) and Caesar (Romans). Both had desires to extend their hegemony over the beleaguered Gauls

Dumnorix (from the Aedui) and Casticus (from the Sequani) were (for want of a better term) proto-Gallic patriots who went against the directives of their own executive Councils, Councils that comprised of the ‘wealthy’ nobility who were stubbornly caught up in the struggle for commercial power / Gallic factional feud.

Dumnorix and Casticus (amongst others) were aware of the bigger picture, of a common threat from without. They sought to bring the warring sides (Aedui Confederacy and Southern Alliance) together and with the help of the Helvetii (one of the last bastions of Gallic power having been spared the sufferings of the civil conflict), hoped to fend off these external threats and preserve Gallic liberty.

Whilst Caesar naturally seeks to paint these figures (Dumnorix and Casticus) as self interested power grabbing rebels (to take attention off his own self seeking / unprovoked aggression) and play down his butchering of a free peoples, the historical record does not bare this out. Even Caesar’s own later commentary on Dumnorix demonstrates this. Further, even the Pro-Roman Uergobretos (magistrate) of the Aedui, Diviciacus (Dumnorix’s brother), a Druid and close friend of Rome (in particular Cicero), appears to have given nominal support to his brother for reasons other than the kinship that Caesar cites as an excuse for his nominal ally. An ally who thought he could reason with Roman greed.

Orgetorix’s motives require one to be a little more circumspect. He already enjoyed a position of substantial power among his people and could possibly have seized power for himself in time without having to move the entire Helvetii nation enmasse.
Caesar states that the Helvetii tried him for treason, claiming they did so because he wished to be king. The Helvetii had long been a proto-republic with an elected council, but internal strife had beset the nation and some scholars suspect that the council feared that the people would rise and elect a War Leader like Orgetorix, thus severely (albeit temporarily) diminishing their own power … and revenue. Interestingly enough, even after Orgetorix was killed, the people nonetheless followed his plan. Something that Caesar glosses over.

Originally Posted by Ypoknons

There is a Helvetii unit in the game - the Mori Gaesum. I'm not sure if they were at Bibracte, though.

The Mori Gaesum unit in EB is a fancy version of the standard Helvetii unit one would expect to see at Bibracte. It has been depicted like this due to it's primary function in the EB as a mercenary / specialised regional unit
eg. At Bibracte, one wouldn't expect to see every warrior wearing a helmet and breatplate, etc.
But it would suffice. Unfortunately we didn't get around to adding more units. The next closest representation would be EB's belgae but with darker hair and different shield ensignia.

my2bob