Faction Icons

[Karielle]

I was just wondering if anyone could enlighten me on the meaning and origins of the symbols in each faction's icon.. Been curious about that for a while. Is there somewhere I can go to find out, or could someone tell me offhand?

I'm interested in finding out that of Aedui's and Arverni's especially, since I'm playing the former at the moment, and am a bit puzzled about the symbols' significance. No background in history, nor any particular interest in it till I started, but you'll find a convert in me yet, EB.

[Anthony]

Aedui - Boars are common Celtic imagery for heroism, and wheels have religious intepretations

Arverni - Hammer and cup, the objects credited to Sucellos, who the Arverni used to 'replace' Cernunnos, the god of Gallic druids, with whom they had a falling out

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Some of the ones I know the most about or have read up on recently. Some of this might be good for an FAQ entry:

KH: Pegasos was chosen because of the extremely common use of it (and its instantaneous recognizability) on coinage from Greek cities across the Mediterranean and Black Sea. Runners up were profiles of Athena and thunderbolts of Zeus I believe (the thunderbolts were added later as the generic Greek rebel, and specific KH rebel sub faction, banners). The colors of black and orange represent the two main colors in the two major vase painting styles, and the shade of orange we use is close to a terracotta color. Icon by Parmenio.


Pontos: Among the symbols most commonly found on Pontic coinage were the crescent moon and the starburst joined together. It was an easy choice. A grazing stag or grazing Pegasos were possible maybe, but this was so common it made it easy (the grazing stag surrounded by ivy and grapes was added later as the rebel sub faction banner - for supporters of a pretender to the Royal throne). The colors of green and purple for it represent the green and purple that the ivy and grape (clusters) that surround many of their coins. Also it didn't hurt that we've seen photos of the royal tombs of the Pontic kings at Amaseia bathed in green and purple lights at night , and the color contrasts well with other nearby ones. Icon by Parmenio.


Epeiros: Molossian Hound. No single image is a clear choice for them. Zeus Dodonaios was very common on coinage (it was added later as the general/captain banner for the faction) - more than anything else. Charging bulls, thunderbolt of Zeus, jugate heads of Zeus and Dione, the Dioscuri, a standing eagle, and Artemis were all considered. It came down to the hound vs. the charging bull, but the hound found on many coins is more immediately recognizable as Epeirote (the charging bull was later added as the rebel sub faction emblem). The darker green and grey colors represent the heavily wooded forests and mountains that their lands encompass, and contrasts well with other nearby faction colors. Icon by Dux Corvanus.


Baktria: Leopard with Ivy/Grapes. A number of possible choices existed. Thundering Zeus was a close alternate (it was later added as the general/captain banner for the faction), and other options were a griffin, an elephant's head, Herakles, a prancing horse. An elephant and the Dioscuri as hetairoi (both from their coins) were later used as the rebel sub faction icons. Their coins provide most of the information we know about ancient Baktria, so going with something from them was obvious. Dionysos was so popular there for a few reasons, including the myths about him conquering the area before "historical times", and Alexander's artistic associations with the god. Using a leopard, the animal of Dionysos, with the ivy and grapes beside it (a combination from a number of their coins) was an easy choice. The land was very rich in precious metals and precious stones as well, with large deposits of lapis lazuli. We chose the color of that particular stone as the background for the icon and the faction color, to represent the wealth and exotic nature of the kingdom. Icon by Dux Corvanus.



Sauromatae: Circular Draco. Along with options such as a sword thrust into the ground and tamgas (livestock brands at first, then evolved into symbols similar to heraldry), this was the clear winner. The symbol was based on this version of the Draco:
The contorted panther/wolf/monster that was considered also for the faction icon became later the rebel sub faction symbol for the Sauromatae. Icon by Parmenio.


The Macedonian star or starburst was an easy choice. I do remember that we stayed away from any particular colors on purpose though - to keep the nasty modern arguments that seemed inevitable away from this discussion. Another royal symbol sometimes used was a goat, which was used in the rebel sub faction symbol in purple and gold carried by the general/captain as pretender to the Macedonian throne.

[abou]

Epeirote Pezhetairoi feature a charging bull on their shield, don't they, TA?

The anchor for Arche Seleukeia was prominently displayed on a number of Seleukid coins and was attributed to Seleukos I, but I can't remember why. I know that the anchor also showed up on some Parthian coins (eg in one of the loading screen) and I can't help but feel that it was used to legitimate Parhtian over Greek subjects.

Actually, what would probably make a very cool Seleukid rebel banners would be the horned horse of Seleukos and Apollo on the Omphalos.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Since rebellions in Seleucid territory are generally old Persian provinces, we use old Persian banners for their rebels.

[The Persian Cataphract]

The Pahlavân faction icon: This one is a bit special. For the Pahlavâ there was a wide selection of different heraldic motifs one could have used. This includes the famous Derafsh-î Kâviyânî, the mythical beast Sen-Mûrv, the sun and crescent (Symbol of Mithras and the Sûrên-Pahlav clan) as well as the Zoroastrian angel Frâvahâr. However as can be seen the choice is a winged lion, a mythical beast. It is based on the golden roundel found in Ecbatânâ, and the background is depending on which version (One of them is made like plain purple piece of textile, presumably silk) of a honeycomb'esque purple pattern, presumably an expensive textile such as silk.

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

The Macedonian star or starburst was an easy choice. I do remember that we stayed away from any particular colors on purpose though - to keep the nasty modern arguments that seemed inevitable away from this discussion. Another royal symbol sometimes used was a goat, which was used in the rebel sub faction symbol in purple and gold carried by the general/captain as pretender to the Macedonian throne.

The Makedonian Star is the Sun of Vergina. They discovered it in the seventies at an archeological site called Vergina.

The anchor for Arche Seleukeia was prominently displayed on a number of Seleukid coins and was attributed to Seleukos I, but I can't remember why.

Ahh, I always wondered what it is! Does someone know the reason why they used an anchor?


Btw, all the faction Icons are... beautyful. That sounds like dull fanboy-behaviour but it is true. I wonder where the EB-team takes the time spent on all that recherche. Are there historians amongst you?

[Foot]

Btw, all the faction Icons are... beautyful. That sounds like dull fanboy-behaviour but it is true. I wonder where the EB-team takes the time spent on all that recherche. Are there historians amongst you?

Most of us are historians-turned-coders, rather than the other way round.

Foot

[Eduorius]

Ahh, I always wondered what it is! Does someone know the reason why they used an anchor?

Ok according to the story that a friend that knows more of the Seleucids than me... the anchor is like also the symbol of Apollo.

The mother of Seleukos had a dream with Apollo and when she woke up she got this ring with the anchor symbol.

When Seleukos was born, he also had this mark on his body, but his mother never told him until he marched with Alexander to the Persian expedition.

[the_handsome_viking]

Is the Arverni center object crossed by the two hammers a drum or a cauldron?

And if so is the cauldron a symbol of immortality within the Celtic world?

[Anthony]

Is the Arverni center object crossed by the two hammers a drum or a cauldron?

And if so is the cauldron a symbol of immortality within the Celtic world?

As above:

Arverni - Hammer and cup, the objects credited to Sucellos, who the Arverni used to 'replace' Cernunnos, the god of Gallic druids, with whom they had a falling out


This was answered; Sucellos, in imagery, has a hammer and a cup.

[Karielle]

Interesting stuff, prompted me to go do some reading up myself..

I love the amount of effort put into creating so much depth and immersion, and though oft-repeated, I must add my voice to the masses - thank you all for the excellent work, EB team!

[antiochus epiphanes]

i read somewhere that seleukos carried a trinket anchor around with him, hence the anchor symbol on seleucid coins.
can someone tell me thats true? ive no idea

[abou]

Like Edourius mentioned, it originates from the story of Seleukos being the son Apollo.

Apparently his mother had a dream of being united with Apollo, in which Apollo told her to give a signet ring with anchor symbol to her resulting son. When she woke she found the ring in the bed. When Seleukos was born there was a birthmark in the shape of an anchor on his thigh. Seleukos was told all of this by his mother before he left for Persia.

Seleukos also had incredible strength and size of frame. So great that he was able to wrestle a bull that had gotten loose during a sacrifice on Alexander's campaign. Because he had subdued the bull much of his imagery contains bull's horns, which is comparable to Alexander's ram horns.

These stories seem to have begun with Antiochus I in order to cement the dynasty and to give a divine origin to it. It certainly helps to explain how a man could basically reconquer Alexander's empire and would have done so if not for an assassin's blade.

[The Celt]

As above:

Arverni - Hammer and cup, the objects credited to Sucellos, who the Arverni used to 'replace' Cernunnos, the god of Gallic druids, with whom they had a falling out


This was answered; Sucellos, in imagery, has a hammer and a cup.

BTW Anthony I was thinking of asking you if perhaps the Holy Grail everybody was searching for in the medieval ages was actually a Catholic carry-over from the Celtic Pagan past. It would explain why nobody in Judea or the Levant had ever heard of it before the Crusades.

[Anthony]

It's a theory, but unprovable. It certainly has Celtic elements, but it certainly wasn't simply all lifted from Celtic myth; there are, aside from blatant references to Christianity, many symbolic Christian aspects and attitudes within it that wouldn't make sense in context of a Celtic pagan myth.

[The Celt]

It's a theory, but unprovable. It certainly has Celtic elements, but it certainly wasn't simply all lifted from Celtic myth; there are, aside from blatant references to Christianity, many symbolic Christian aspects and attitudes within it that wouldn't make sense in context of a Celtic pagan myth.

Yeah thats kinda were I got lost. It could just be a coincidence. Especially since the Celtic religion has a lot in common with Indian Hinduism yet we certainly know for sure that those cultures never had any contact what-so-ever with each other that we know of!