300 Seen it!

[Xtiaan72]

So you really excited by this movie ,right. And it broke any record for the first ,2nd ,3rd in Greece . . . And I'm sure it would broke even more records there my friend. YOU GREEKS ,I know you like these movies ,Not only you ,many of you westerners like them. Now YOU GREEKS! have very good reason to declare war on Iran. USA now have a trusted allies on his future war against Iran. YOU GREEKS Want to prove your so called "Thermopylae" ,Right? So come on my friend ,We in iran have many places like Thermopylae and I seriously want to show you the true Thermopylae.

SO COME ON YOU GREEKS ,Modern Thermopylae is in Iran ,IF YOU WANT IT !

Whooooaaa.... That's pretty kooky stuff there man. Maybe you should see the movie first before you start WWIII over it. Oh that's right, you can't watch the movie in Iran because it wouldn't be allowed. My Bad!

[Boyar Son]

Nooo, this thread will be locked.

kambiz, if you really do not want to be infuriated by having your country insulted, skip the next few posts.

[abou]

I can't blame you for being mad, Kambiz. In fact, you probably should be mad (pissed even), but don't bring sentiments like these into the thread - at least not voiced in that fashion.

[Tiberius Nero]

I am Greek btw.

For my sake, kambiz don't yell, it is a ridiculous matter.

[aecp]

I can't blame you for being mad, In fact, you probably should be mad (pissed even),

He should be mad about the movie being popular in Greece?

[abou]

He should be mad about the movie being popular in Greece?

Kambiz is Iranian; his ancestors were those who made the Persian empire. To see his ancestors portrayed in such a manner is no doubt upsetting to him.

[aecp]

Kambiz is Iranian; his ancestors were those who made the Persian empire. To see his ancestors portrayed in such a manner is no doubt upsetting to him.

Even if I think that's hardly an excuse to throw a major hissy fit at some random strangers on the internet, I could atleast kind of understand it. But that wasn't really what he said.

Unless of course his post was just an elaborate troll, or an attempt to poke fun at people who have nothing better to do than to get upset over something that happened roughly 2500 years ago (in which case I'd find it flawlessly executed and very funny). Otherwise his post seemed only to imply that 300 being popular in Greece = USA and Greece declaring war on Iran.

[Tiberius Nero]

Seeing as my own compatriots raise such a ridiculously huge uproar when someone hints at subjects like homosexuality in the Macedonian court (I know personally scholars who received death threats for taking part in a panel with such a subject during a conference in Thessaloniki several years ago, it is a disgrace really), I can understand how a modern Persian would be furious at seeing his ancestors depicted as mutant hordes of gibbering beasts.

[aecp]

Seeing as my own compatriots raise such a ridiculously huge uproar when someone hints at subjects like homosexuality in the Macedonian court (I know personally scholars who received death threats for taking part in a panel with such a subject during a conference in Thessaloniki several years ago, it is a disgrace really), I can understand how a modern Persian would be furious at seeing his ancestors depicted as mutant hordes of gibbering beasts.

Understanding it is one thing, but I don't see why one should tolerate it on a moderated forum.

[Xtiaan72]

Guys, it's wierder than that. He's getting really angry about descriptions of a movie he clearly hasn't seen. Think about that for a second. That's a little coo coo!

[abou]

Guys, it's wierder than that. He's getting really angry about descriptions of a movie he clearly hasn't seen. Think about that for a second. That's a little coo coo!

It doesn't take a genius to notice how terribly the movie is skewed in its depictions from just a trailer that is up on apple.com. He doesn't need to see the movie, all he needs are a few screenshots of Xerxes.

[Foot]

Kambiz, it is well known that in the western world there is certainly an hellenic bias, this is unfortunate, particularly as persia during this period of history has just an equal a right to be respected in the western world, but it is also historically situated in western culture. Hollywood, appealing to the western world, finds it very difficult to show their films in anything other than from a helleno-centric position, because the christian tradition that so underlies western culture was itself born such a world.

Personally I have a fantastic admiration for the eastern world, particularly during this timeframe. Persia spawned three great empires, Mesopotamia has a history that is so rich in culture and history that it constantly astounds me with its awesome majesty. What is so fantastic indeed, is that most of this history is still to be uncovered! What I wouldn't give to read the Epic of Gilgamesh in its full glory, but even in its fractured state it has a power to inspire that is equal to the greatest writings of the hellenic world.

Kambiz, don't be upset by the success of 300 in the western world, it is merely a intepretation of that battle that panders to the familiarity of our cultures understanding of that history. Just as the depiction of the persians and the greeks in 300 makes no sense to you, the reverse would also be true, if it was a film based on an persian intepretation of Thermoplyae. Art is not there to represent a scientific understanding of history, it rather recreates the culture, history and identity of its audience and can only be understand by people who come from such a world.

Blah, I'm going on a bit, damn all this philosophy of art.

Foot

[Xtiaan72]

It doesn't take a genius to notice how terribly the movie is skewed in its depictions from just a trailer that is up on apple.com. He doesn't need to see the movie, all he needs are a few screenshots of Xerxes.

The movie is based on a really pulpy graphic novel! If he thought it was a bad depiction he should have said so. He didn't. He just jumped all over a guy who said the movie was doing well in Greece. I'm not defending the movie. I'm defending keravnos. Who's from Greece and likes the movie and has the right to say so in this thread.

Kambiz made an ill conceived, paranoid political statement about "Greeks and their Allies" which I personally take offence to. His comment had nothing to do with the movie and everything to do with his political views. This is not the place to post such comments and I feel like he owes all of us an apology. Especially Keravnos.

This was a fun, harmless thread and there was no reason for such garbage here.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Should we stop discussions of this here guys?

[Domitius Ulpianus]

It sucks how every topic like this turns into a historical debate or one about truth and facts. Any notions of authenticity and realism, first of all should never have existed with regards to this movie, but even if they did they should have been thrown out before going into it.



Exactly. And with regards to all those points, it was a terrible film.

Now this is a statement I can't argue against...if you think the movie failed in stuff like direction, screenplay, actors, edition...etc...I might not agree with you, after all it's a matter of personal taste, but is fair enough for me to accept and respect as an opinion.

[Lord Gruffles]

I haven't seen it but look forward to doing so.

FYI:

BOXOFFICE BLOODBATH: '300' BREAKS RECORD

[kambiz]

hey I found some new opponents Rome total war is good place for getting revenge.

From when the sounds of this nasty thing came up ,I had my own position against this movie. But I always tried to be cool about the matter. There's another thread about this thing which I posted just two posts there ,simply tried to explain why I am disagree with this movie ,No more posts.I did not insulted anyone in this forum(And I never do this). But how mutch we closed to the release date ,the number of threads about this nasty thing not only in this forum ,but in other forums increased ,with different titles about 300. I tired of this ,Everwhere there is a talk about it ,teasers in TV channels on internet ,too many threads in forums and even the nasty one ,Yahoo message board about this thing ,Full of insults to us ,"Persians are animals" ,"They were uncivilized ,must be slaughtered" ,"Persian Trolls" ,even in this sub forum "EB forum" we have at least 3-4 threads about it. I've found out why it should be so attractive for you. You like it ,Somthing inside you which you try to hide it(Although some of you don't). Killing persians ,West superiority ,Butchering anyone don't think like us. If it was just a movie for entartaining ,You didn't give it such a credit ,Yahoo message board in one of them (I haven't post anything there).Many of you consatntly say "It is just a movie" ,"It is for fun" ,"It is not a documentary". Iran and USA struggles reached in its peak ,And exactly at the middle of War talks ,We have a movie like 300 ! DO YOU REALLY THINK IT IS JUST AN ACCIDENT? Mobies somtimes made for political reasons ,Do you deny it? 9/11 is on fo them ,There's many of them in holywood(And all around the world). And we do know that sometimes government is behind them. So don't say that it is JUST an entertaining movie ,If you would like to think so and trick yourselves,I don't.
The last night me and some of my fiends saw the trailer of the movie. I never saw so mutch scenes of the movie before like I did last night. We really surprised and shocked when saw so called persians there. They were so angry about it and I told them that this is just a movie and they have the freedom to make everything ,But I personally was really sad about what been called a movie about Thermopylae. After that when I was checking EB sub forum ,I thought lets take a look at this thread ,I read some of the posts but when I reached keravnos's posts ,I couldn't hold myself anymore ,I thought that's enough just to sit and only watching. I didn't expect greeks to support this movie ,Greeks who I have so mutch respect to them like many other history lovers and those who believe in democracy.

Whooooaaa.... That's pretty kooky stuff there man. Maybe you should see the movie first before you start WWIII over it. Oh that's right, you can't watch the movie in Iran because it wouldn't be allowed. My Bad!

kambiz, if you really do not want to be infuriated by having your country insulted, skip the next few posts.

Oh sorry to If I went out of my limits ,It is western realm and Democracy ! You are so sooo soooooooo Selfish !

@aecp
I bet you are one of those "sincerely cool guys in the world!" ,The master of logic which nothing is important just pure logic for him. Sorry that I am inferior to you ,because to me(And many other easterners) sentiments is also imortant.
I don't know why you think everybody should be like you and you are absolute right? Your democracy says that or your mathematical logic ? Your posts especially burn me ! We are sensitive and I agree this is not good ,But however ,That's whatever we are and your democracy says you should respect others believes ,Doesn't? You may don't mind who is your ancestors but it is important for many others. You may don't mind if your father being insulted ,But many others do.You say we have freedom ,thus we can make any movies about anything ! It is ridiculous ,That means for example Me and some of my friends gather in a street and when a poor little passenger cross we begin teasing him/her and when he/she says why you do so? we say in response : because here is freedom and we can do this with anyone and you can respond us if you want ! Is it a good excuse in your opinion? You want a movie who wntertains you? Well ,there are many subjects for such a movies. Why not the orcs ro trolls being your enemy of your freedom? and enjoy them bleed? It seems you are thirsty of blood ! By the Way ,I don't except some one like you to understand us ,So go and watch it thousands of times ,Why thousands ,Millions.

@Foot
My dear friend ,I accept your talks about helleno-centric position of western (Especially) movies. But making a helleno-centric movie is somthing and making a insulting movie about us is another thing. I explained this clearly in my response to aecp.

Kambiz, don't be upset by the success of 300 in the western world, it is merely a intepretation of that battle that panders to the familiarity of our cultures understanding of that history. Just as the depiction of the persians and the greeks in 300 makes no sense to you, the reverse would also be true, if it was a film based on an persian intepretation of Thermoplyae. Art is not there to represent a scientific understanding of history, it rather recreates the culture, history and identity of its audience and can only be understand by people who come from such a world.

Once again ,this doesn't let them to insult others. Also I don't even expect them to make a 100% historical movie and as other said it is not possible ,but this is not an excuse for making such a movie against us. It is not abour historical accuracy ,It is about insulting and scorning a nation.

Also ,I have no problem with Spartans and the fact of the battle of Thermopylae. I also don't have any problem with greeks ,and as i said I do respect them so mutch and their cultural achievements who nobody can deny them. But not more than my history. Let's clarify somthing. AFAIK greeks expecially athenians were Aryan like we iranians are. So they are closer to us compare to you westerners who originally german or saxons or...
Aryans in greece chose democracy as a system of their governing ,And I call democracy a magic and we all know the magical effect of democracy ,On the other hand ,Aryans who migrated to middle east did not have the good situation their comrades had in greece. they had to live in the region who had been ruled by absolute rulers which was so cruel and heartless ,Assyrians were the last one alongside the babylonians. Their honor were to killing others and as they said by themselves when they took a city from their enemy they "Burned their city ,slaughtered them all and slaved their women and children" and Aryans had to find their way under this situation and of course they couldn't be democratic after hundreds of years living under the control of such a cruel dynasties. But when they reached the power ,instead of continuing that way ,They created a real kingdom. No more slaves ,People were free in their believes ,No more slaughtering of the defeated enemies.
Iranians did thier best. If they could have democratice system .Then I called them super nation ,becuase In my opinion ,It wasn't possible at the time.

@Xtiaan72

This is not the place to post such comments and I feel like he owes all of us an apology. Especially Keravnos

I owe you an apology ,Ha ha ,You'r so funny you know. Why I should apologize you? I'm confused. I should apologize you because you made a movie to insult us? becuase all of YOU GREEKS ! are going to watch this movie thus supporting it? You that being offended in this way ,I wish you could be instead of me and feel what I feeling when I saw those scenes even in a trailer? YOU GREEK easily insult my ancestors and my history and in the name of democracy and then expect me to apologize you ?! It's Shameful. That's why I said so to Keravnos. YOU GREEKS want an apology? So COME AND GET ! . . . HELL.

Should we stop discussions of this here guys?

MUST BE

At the end ,I'm so sorry if i offended anyone and I tried to be cool anyways. And sorry for my bad english.

Regards

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Umm never thought I would say this: Tele, could please you lock this thread?

Sorry If with my posts I contributed to "this". All I wanted was to exchange opinions about a theme I'm very passionate about, being a Law graduate:

"Truth".

Really sorry it all degenerated into this.

Excuse my english too, is not my mother language.

[Foot]

@Foot
My dear friend ,I accept your talks about helleno-centric position of western (Especially) movies. But making a helleno-centric movie is somthing and making a insulting movie about us is another thing. I explained this clearly in my response to aecp.Once again ,this doesn't let them to insult others. Also I don't even expect them to make a 100% historical movie and as other said it is not possible ,but this is not an excuse for making such a movie against us. It is not abour historical accuracy ,It is about insulting and scorning a nation.

Also ,I have no problem with Spartans and the fact of the battle of Thermopylae. I also don't have any problem with greeks ,and as i said I do respect them so mutch and their cultural achievements who nobody can deny them. But not more than my history. Let's clarify somthing. AFAIK greeks expecially athenians were Aryan like we iranians are. So they are closer to us compare to you westerners who originally german or saxons or...
Aryans in greece chose democracy as a system of their governing ,And I call democracy a magic and we all know the magical effect of democracy ,On the other hand ,Aryans who migrated to middle east did not have the good situation their comrades had in greece. they had to live in the region who had been ruled by absolute rulers which was so cruel and heartless ,Assyrians were the last one alongside the babylonians. Their honor were to killing others and as they said by themselves when they took a city from their enemy they "Burned their city ,slaughtered them all and slaved their women and children" and Aryans had to find their way under this situation and of course they couldn't be democratic after hundreds of years living under the control of such a cruel dynasties. But when they reached the power ,instead of continuing that way ,They created a real kingdom. No more slaves ,People were free in their believes ,No more slaughtering of the defeated enemies.
Iranians did thier best. If they could have democratice system .Then I called them super nation ,becuase In my opinion ,It wasn't possible at the time.

This I must stress, 300 is not an insult. That you feel insulted means only that it has been misunderstood by yourself. In the movie, the characters and cultures are not stereotypes but archetypes of political, philosophical and moral positions. Here the greeks represent the force of freedom, democracy, righteousness, courage - all those good traits that are so important to our democratic west - and so represent the good. In the age-old battle, good must always be confronted with evil, and thus the enemies of the greeks must be the archetype of evil. Persia and Persians represent the opposite of freedom, democracy, righteousness and courage - they do not represent persians or Persia! 300 plays out like a myth, and in this sense it certainly is propaganda. Here the propaganda is the triumph of good over evil, of freedom over slavery, of democracy over tyranny, of courage over cowardice. 300 portrays the persians as evil not because they were, but because in the story it is demanded of it. A more complex telling would certainly wish to look at the tale in shades of grey, but as a myth 300 must be told in black and white. It is not an insult to persia, because it doesn't represent persia; persia is used as a metaphor for evil, just as greece is used as a metaphor for good.

Now I do not doubt, and indeed would argue, that the current political climate has informed this film and interpretation of this story. A myth must be historically situated for it to have any meaning. It would make no sense to have the persians act as a poetic metaphor for evil if history had placed the middle-east and the successors of the persians as stalwart allies of the western, christian tradition.

What must be remembered is that art does not make the world, rather it remakes it anew so that the audience can become aware of the world that they inhabit (and by world, I mean their customs, traditions, culture, understanding of being etc). I do not expect 300 to inspire a self-critical air to the world that westerners live in, it certainly isn't meant to and as it is not great art its representation of the world does not inspire self-concious - but entertainment has its place.

As for democracy, do not go so far in praising it. History repeats itself and just as Athens under democracy burned those cities who would not accept the 'freedom' of their enlightened neighbours, we know spread democracy by burning those who oppose. Achaemenid Persia contained a more tolerant outlook to different cultures, and in fact the culture and religion of persis was influenced far more by the peoples it conquered, than the conquered peoples were ever influenced by persis (awful sentence, sorry).

Foot

[aecp]

You may don't mind who is your ancestors but it is important for many others. You may don't mind if your father being insulted ,But many others do.You say we have freedom ,thus we can make any movies about anything ! It is ridiculous ,That means for example Me and some of my friends gather in a street and when a poor little passenger cross we begin teasing him/her and when he/she says why you do so? we say in response : because here is freedom and we can do this with anyone and you can respond us if you want ! Is it a good excuse in your opinion? You want a movie who wntertains you? Well ,there are many subjects for such a movies. Why not the orcs ro trolls being your enemy of your freedom? and enjoy them bleed? It seems you are thirsty of blood !

Well, first of all 300 doesn't really depict anyone's ancestors, it's fiction, based on a comic which happens to be loosely based on Herodotos. Second, I think there's a big difference between a movie/internet and insulting someone in person. Of course I'd be upset if someone did that. And I do find it irritating when a writer or director presents a work full of flaws and misinformations as historically accurate. My point is that 300 simply doesn't do that, it's pure myth. And anyway, there's no reason not to be civil about it. The world would be a better place if people could calm down and not overreact to stuff that really isn't worth it.

[Thaatu]

Maybe after EB2, the team should put up a film studio. Oh come on, if you can make a game you can make a movie too! Of course movies aren't moddable at the moment, but in a few years...

[The Persian Cataphract]

Enough Kambiz. You may have been insulted by a movie based off a mere comic book, but that gives you no right to insult my friend, nor his people. The last stand of the 300 Spartans, with or without this silly movie, was a noble sacrifice, something we Iranians should respect and honour. It was the stupidity and the arrogance of Khashâyârshâh that would immortalize the valour of the Spartans and the The Thespians, not Persian inferiority. This man was inferior to his own father, a man who used to be the regal spear-bearer. When I see you post insults and infantile remarks like "Hey Greeks, come to Iran for a Thermopylae!" I can only get more and more ashamed of my countrymen who shut their eyes while they shout. Let me ask you something, kambiz. Did this movie change history? Have Greeks, our most honourable foe in the entire course of history turned into a new reinvigorated enemy of yours? You have no right to touch the heart of the Greek pride, and their pride lies in their stout defence against insurmountable odds, something we Iranians must acknowledge.

For one second, for one split second take a look at our own country. We Iranians are the masters of complaining. Didn't the Islamic regime spend millions of dollars in sponsored money for a TV-series on Ali Ibn Abu Talib and his womanizer son Husayn Ibn Ali? Isn't it the same stupid regime who calls Zoroastrians and other minorities "descended from animals"? Isn't it this same stupid regime who has built a dam, a potential danger to our cultural heritage? if "300" depicts their image of Persians as bloodthirsty demons, then it applies perfectly to the theocratic, Islamic usurpers who put our country to shame for over 27 years. It's time for Iranians to make a stand, Kambiz. Iranians can't have both Islam and their ancient heritage, unless they want to give birth to bastard children as ugly as the hunchbacks of "300". You can't celebrate Nowrûz with a Qur'an. You can not say "Ya abelfezl" while you count the seconds. Iranians can not complain about caricatures while at the same time complain about a movie depicting Iranians in their alleged "jahiliyat" (Period of religious ignorance as the muslim Iranians would like to call it). It's hypocrisy. Recently some official from the Islamic regime called the movie an "insult to the Islamic Revolution".

How does he have the audacity? That is an insult. One of Iran's true enemies, slams the movie's depiction of "Persians" because it disturbs muslim sensibilities and the Islamic revolution. My Greek friend has done nothing wrong for just stating his opinion on a film made for entertainment. If you are so easily upset over Xerxes being depicted as a black man with a fetish for dervish practices, and some Persians being depicted as recycled creatures from the third Lord of The Rings movie, then how come no one boycotts the Islamic Regime for being wreckless against ancient Iranian heritage? Years have gone since the Bam earthquake yet most live in tents supplied by the Red Cross, and the Arg-î Bam, the Emerald of the Desert, a true showcase of Parthian power, has been neglected since that devastating earthquake. I'll tell you why all our national treasures are neglected: The Islamic regime does not give a shit about Iran's national identity. Millions of dollars are sent to restoration projects in the "holy Shi'ite sites" of Iraq, but God forbid that they send a few hundreds of bucks to prevent the collapse of Partho-Sassanian mortar.

Greeks and Iranians fought against each other for centuries. Neither truly the winner nor the loser. Alexander annexed the Persian Empire, the Parthians avenged it, the Sassanians almost crushed the Byzantines, the Byzantines fought back. Greeks had the Thermopylae, we had the last stand at the Persian Gates. There is a bright future lying ahead for Greeks and Iranians, for as long as we fought each other, we had exchanges like no other rivals in history. The Greeks have their Spartans, we Iranians have our cavalry. Greeks are at the very least historically aware of themselves, just take a look at our own population. Most people think that Iran was born in the wake of Islam! The entire West knows of the Spartans, but not even Iranians are aware of their own Pahlavân horsemen. That is worth lamenting.

If Iranians want to make their own movie depicting "Persia" in all her glory, no one will protest. Yes, do it by all means, do depict Romans or Greeks as reptiles if that will soothe the childish thirst for revenge in the most primal level of Tu-Quoque and please do depict Persians as armoured cavalry in plate armour. Good God, I hope I haven't given anyone silly ideas... I'd rather drink rat's poison than allow the Islamic regime tarnishing history just for making a movie for the sake of silly retaliation. Kambiz, I expect you to be a man true of your heritage, and apologize to Keravnos, not for the sake of humbling yourself, but rather for the sake of proving that we all can lose our temper for a silly cause yet able to retain our dignity. I do not demand this of you, but always think of your âberû, and as much as Iranian means "noble", a noble man, âbarmânig, dignity is always at best when retained. I'm not asking you to like this movie, not at all, I do understand if Iranians do get offended, and I do understand that freedom of speech does go both ways, but to me it is embarassing to see a bunch of people signing petitions.

Bâ sepâs.

[Foot]

His eloquence shines again.

Foot

[Vorian]

Persian Cataphract that was one of the few posts of this length that I manage to finish. Very good points, and I think the conversation is over. As for kambiz, he should know that a US attack in Iran would find Greeks totally opposite, since our society is too anti-american right now.

PS: These discussions should take place in political forums, not a forum dedicated to a game. Just my opinion.

[mAIOR]

I make Vorian words my own. And before reading your post I was gonna answer (not so elaboratly with so many examples) as Irans regime constantle neglects his national Heritage in liew of modern Islam. But now, no need.

Now, back on topic, After seing most of this topic, I got even more curious about this movie. Is it that action packed as the trailer akes us believe and the Comic depics it? Is it an adaptation like Sin City??

Cheers...

[GeneticFlea]

its as action packed as Sin city sure. Its definitely different, in its filming and the pace of the movie, but the idea of a stylized frank miller world is still the same. Not to mention, did anyone else notice how often they said sparta? it was ridiculous "Sparta is this, spartans, dont we love sparta for being spartan?"

But on my own opinions, the movie, visually was cool, i especially like the image of the phenecian, Egyptian and ionian fleet in the storm, that was impressive. But seeing as i just finished reading Herodotus and Persian fire by tom holland, i find this movie depressing. Depressing in that i know the truth of what happened, and so many people i know think they understand these events based soley on this movie. I personally really wanted to see Themistocles and eurybiades and the whole freakin naval aspect! i mean in reality those battles were what won the war for the greeks, not the 300.

And it would have been nice to see an actual phalanx, and some of the strategies the Spartans actually used, like retreating in formation and turning on the tricked foe, or rotating the front fighters every few minutes. Hell they couldve shown the thespians and all the other allies who fought with them, or even there helots who they forced into battle with them.

I guess you could go on forever with what they couldve done to make this movie realistic. Im a big proponent of historical accuracy( seeing as were EB fans, i guess we all our), however one good thing did come from this movie, some of the clueless guys i went with actually started asking me questions about what REALLY happened. And if this can get them interested in the truth, i cant hate that.


BTW if i was Athenian, id be pissed at this movie, seeing they were left totally out of this war, and they were one of the biggest reasons it happened! and the biggest players!

[Domitius Ulpianus]

New Oxymoron: "Spartan Farmer"

Let's get the facts straight about "Spartan Farmers". Well, the one thing we all know about "Spartan farmers" is they were Helots, Slaves that were treated with uncommon brutality by their Spartan overlords. And we know The Spartans treated them that way because it let them be full time, kick ass warriors.

So if you think about it logically, the average "Spartan Farmer" was probably unaware of any Persian invasion at all. The Spartan Warriors" would have tried to keep that information from them out of fear of rebellion. If the "Spartan Farmers" did find out they would have been very quite about it because "Spartan Warriors" really wouldn't like that kind of talk.

And if the "Spartan Farmer" did talk quitely about it with other "Spartan Farmers" they might have had a dim thought in the back of their head that someone was trying to conquer their slavemasters and that they might one day be free.

Umm, now that everything looks back to normal. I think it would be good to comment this. After all, is love for history what brings us all here.

Dear X, yes, you are right in you observations if we understand the term Spartan only as those with full citizen status "the spartiates". In that light your observation would have been a 100% accurate if I would have said "spartiate farmer", but I did not.

On the other hand, if we understand the term Spartan, not just to describe the dominant caste, but all those people composing the Spartan society (The Spartiates, the Perioikoi and the Helots)...then I don't see why the expression "Spartan farmer" would be a "Oxymoron" LOL (lovely term btw)

It is interesting that in your reply you forgot to talk about the Perioikoi caste which handled all the trade and commerce for the city, being that it was forbidden by law for the Spartiates to participate in such activities.

Now, if I'm not wrong the Perioikoi were free men, mainly farmers and merchants who lacked the full citizenship of the Spartiates, but the territory they occupied formed part of the Spartan territory. If I recall right they could form part of the civil army, but of course they had no political rights.

Anyway, just wanted to comment this point. And please if someone better informed than me has something to add or correct, by all means please do so. I would gladly learn more about this. The social composition of ancient civilization is something I have always found very interesting.

[Tiberius Nero]

BTW if i was Athenian, id be pissed at this movie, seeing they were left totally out of this war, and they were one of the biggest reasons it happened! and the biggest players!

Yep, you got me that's the true reason why I hated the graphic novel, because I am Athenian. :P

[Boyar Son]

kambiz, if you do not want to be dragged into a big political discussion, skip the next few posts.

P.S. you're selfish!

[The Persian Cataphract]

Knock it off. It's not like you are going to add anything but oil to fire if you are going to provoke him with inanities.