The boats: spies sometimes?

[EatYerGreens]

@ Macsen Rufus

That thing with Sweden is interesting because, when its port is built, that faces into Skaggerack, not into the Baltic.

I'm not saying that the port needs to have been built. What I'm getting at is that the positions of ports are predefined, in the startpos files (I think) and those coordinates may have a secondary use, in defining the point of contact between the sea and the land, for the purposes of reconnaissance.

There are plenty of other examples of where the land and sea boundaries cause overlaps, like Algeria across to Egypt; bits of the Iberian peninsular and so on.

Like I mentioned before, you need to scout ALL the lands of that faction (using Bish/Alim/Emm), to make sure they have zero spy/assassin training capacity, so as to eliminate counterspying effects as a possibility.



@ General Dazza,

Check the province parchments carefully. You may have mistaken the 'Resources' entry for the trade goods one. Serbia has Gold as a resource, so you have to build the mine or mine complex to make money out of that. It's a fixed income and a modest amount, compared to what trade can bring, but it has the advantage that the income doesn't stop when you get blockaded.

Greece has Silk as trade goods, so you should be able to build the trade post there.

[Caerfanan]

That thing with Sweden is interesting because, when its port is built, that faces into Skaggerack, not into the Baltic.
I'm not saying that the port needs to have been built. What I'm getting at is that the positions of ports are predefined, in the startpos files (I think) and those coordinates may have a secondary use, in defining the point of contact between the sea and the land, for the purposes of reconnaissance.

Yes, I think the boat has to be where the port would show to see anything.

[caravel]

@ Macsen Rufus

That thing with Sweden is interesting because, when its port is built, that faces into Skaggerack, not into the Baltic.

I'm not saying that the port needs to have been built. What I'm getting at is that the positions of ports are predefined, in the startpos files (I think) and those coordinates may have a secondary use, in defining the point of contact between the sea and the land, for the purposes of reconnaissance.

Interesting thread, I've always assumed that rival factions' fleets blocked your fleets from reconnoitering a province? If you find this not to be the case then it may be that counterspying agents or border forts could block it, though I'm not sure...

The port positions are located in the startpos file. The coordinates seem to determine as to which coastal waters a port or shipyard interacts with. The facing is purely cosmetic, it simply sets the port sprite (different facings) used on the campaign map.

[General Dazza]

[QUOTE=EatYerGreens@ General Dazza,

Check the province parchments carefully. You may have mistaken the 'Resources' entry for the trade goods one. Serbia has Gold as a resource, so you have to build the mine or mine complex to make money out of that. It's a fixed income and a modest amount, compared to what trade can bring, but it has the advantage that the income doesn't stop when you get blockaded.

Greece has Silk as trade goods, so you should be able to build the trade post there.[/QUOTE]

Thanks EYG - I do have the gold mine already so no probs there. I just forgot that the prvince needs to have a trade good to be able to trade (which makes sense).

Caravel - are you saying that there's a difference in where the port sprites are on the map to where the port actually faces (i.e. which coastal water it interacts with)?

[caravel]

Caravel - are you saying that there's a difference in where the port sprites are on the map to where the port actually faces (i.e. which coastal water it interacts with)?

I would say that the coordinates dictate as to what sea the port interacts with. The facing is cosmetic only. A shipyard alone, where the port has been destroyed, can produce ships and dump them out at sea, so it must be the coordinate alone that dictates it.

[Caerfanan]

I would say that the coordinates dictate as to what sea the port interacts with. The facing is cosmetic only. A shipyard alone, where the port has been destroyed, can produce ships and dump them out at sea, so it must be the coordinate alone that dictates it.

I think that if you want to know which see is "linked" to a province, building a boat would do: the boat will appear in the "linked" sea

To answer your previous post, yes, the province owner's boats block the sight. We had someone expecting to see Sweden from the baltic sea, and apparently, you have to have a ship in Skaggerak.

[caravel]

I think that if you want to know which see is "linked" to a province, building a boat would do: the boat will appear in the "linked" sea

Yes I know that, my point was more so "how does the game engine determine this". It must be based on the location of the port on the map, but this is not clear.

To answer your previous post, yes, the province owner's boats block the sight. We had someone expecting to see Sweden from the baltic sea, and apparently, you have to have a ship in Skaggerak.

I believe that if a province adjoins two or more seas, and you are in an empty neutral sea, you still won't be able to see into that province if the province owner has a boat off one of the other coasts. This is from memory though, so don't quote me on that.

[Caerfanan]

Yes I know that, my point was more so "how does the game engine determine this". It must be based on the location of the port on the map, but this is not clear.:

Oh. Allright. You were one step ahead... I guess that the drawing of the port is linked to the official sea of a province (I think it's written in the manual)

I believe that if a province adjoins two or more seas, and you are in an empty neutral sea, you still won't be able to see into that province if the province owner has a boat off one of the other coasts. This is from memory though, so don't quote me on that.

Gah, I should've explained better.... A few post before, someone was surprised because he was the only boat in the sea (no foreign boats around), and couldn't see Sweden from the Baltic. But could as soon as he had a boat in Skagerak. Then EYG answered that it could be linked to the fact that the Swedish port leads to skaggerak, probably meaning that to see sweden, you need an unblocked boat in skagerak (and not the baltic).

I'm not making it clearer am I?

[caravel]

Gah, I should've explained better.... A few post before, someone was surprised because he was the only boat in the sea (no foreign boats around), and couldn't see Sweden from the Baltic. But could as soon as he had a boat in Skagerak. Then EYG answered that it could be linked to the fact that the Swedish port leads to skaggerak, probably meaning that to see sweden, you need an unblocked boat in skagerak (and not the baltic).

I'm not making it clearer am I?

Serves me right for not reading the whole thread!

If the issue is "seeing" into provinces from an adjacent sea, then I believe that not only does the fleet have to be in the sea where the port is located but that the port itself needs to be present. If it's not the latter then it's still definitely the former. The fleet "looks" into the province through the port if that makes any sense?

Sorry for not following this thread more closely.