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Thread: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

  1. #31
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosakawa Tito
    To every special interest group that demand and receive a hand out. The devil is in the priorities, apparently, proper medical care for military personnel is way down the queue of things to do today. If being in the military is considered a buffoon's occupation, by those in power that control the purse strings, than the grunts will go begging. Another sacrifice for those that already give a heaping plate full already, and an undeserved one at that. So, who's to take up the banner to rectify this injustice?
    Actually, most of the money is going to the NHS who are supposed to treat these soldiers. Originally conceived as an investment that would reduce its levels of funding as the population's health improved, it's long been recognised that the NHS is a bottomless pit that will swallow whatever cash is thrown at it, and still ask for more. Various governments have tried to regulate or split off fragments to reduce state commitment to it, but the three-lettered monster always manages to find a reply, and the electorate will always find fault with the government over this issue.

  2. #32
    Corrupted Member ezrider's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    If the prince takes a round in the leg he won't end up in an NHS hospital for damn sure.
    * Never take an eejit with you on a journey. You can always pick one up when you get there.


  3. #33
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    The closure of Haslar hostpital is a local issue to me, but sadly popular protest has only extended the life of the facility. Soon the military will pull out and the NHS services will slowly be relocated to Queen Alexandria hospital (always assuming that the latter's expansion programme is ever finished).

    The Government of the day never treats it's soldiers well. They should, they have a moral duty to do so, but they never do. It comes down to money unfortunately. Although willing to piss money away on military R&D projects no one ever seems willing to spend money on care. That, and the fact the the MoD is basically incompetent when it comes to the real world, has seen the closure of military facilities.

    Now, to make matters worse, injured and traumatised soldiers are having to go through the NHS which, while willing, is not ideally equipped to deal with their conditions. Further more this means that in many cases the soldiers have had to join the NHS waiting lists or, worse, pay for private care. This is utterly unacceptable, but is a direct and forseeable result of the closure of military hospitals.

    Edit:

    No ezrider, he would get private treatment in the same way that any other soldier who can afford it would be wise to do. Only the taxpayer will end up paying anyway!
    Last edited by Slyspy; 03-12-2007 at 14:39.
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  4. #34
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    Actually, most of the money is going to the NHS who are supposed to treat these soldiers. Originally conceived as an investment that would reduce its levels of funding as the population's health improved, it's long been recognised that the NHS is a bottomless pit that will swallow whatever cash is thrown at it, and still ask for more. Various governments have tried to regulate or split off fragments to reduce state commitment to it, but the three-lettered monster always manages to find a reply, and the electorate will always find fault with the government over this issue.
    No one thought that medical advances would keep happening, apparently.

    The fact is medicine is a lot more expensive now than back when the NHS was first founded, when it consisted of some morphine and a pat on the back if you managed to get better.

  5. #35
    Member Member Vidar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy
    I think its very unfair to call it a betrayal, a mistake perhaps, but their has been no deliberate actions against the military..

    as for funding, the public (rightly) think education, health etc. are more important, and so more money is put into them, Mp's like their money, but in the grand scheme of things, dont take up all that much...

    lastly why legal action? if the soldiers are found to have been mistreated in hospital, then they can gain' compensation, but Tony Blair cannot be legaly "retributed" for going to war, soldiers know they may die, --> he made the decision, even if it is the wrong one, he still had every right to make it...

    Sending men and woman to fight, poorly equipped and when they are injured physically or mentally not looking after their needs to the fullest extent is not a mistake if you keep on doing it, it is a betrayal.

    Mp's Do like Money and spend it freely.

    you can take a look at some of the money here
    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mps/

    A reduction In the expense bills of a few Mp's Would probably buy a hell of a lot of Body Armour or Medical support for troops when they return home for whatever reason. I think if Anyone deserves to be paid vast amounts It's those who put their lives on the line.

    Why legal Action? because voting with a bullet would be the wrong path to take.

    Soldiers do know they may die, Thats why they deserve better treatment than many have received. Politicians should first work out what kind of peace they want, then work out if, with the resources available they can achieve this. Not just hand everyone a pointed stick and throw them into battle. As for Tony blair maybe I am being unfair, He did say something about Blood sacrifice, after all

  6. #36

    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian
    Actually, most of the money is going to the NHS who are supposed to treat these soldiers. Originally conceived as an investment that would reduce its levels of funding as the population's health improved, it's long been recognised that the NHS is a bottomless pit that will swallow whatever cash is thrown at it, and still ask for more. Various governments have tried to regulate or split off fragments to reduce state commitment to it, but the three-lettered monster always manages to find a reply, and the electorate will always find fault with the government over this issue.
    You're spinning what the "government" wants you to spin and assuming what they want you to assume. We are on the road to private healthcare. A working NHS is not part of the plan, it has to be seen to fail in order to justify the transformation, and corrupt officials and public sector workers are, as ever, the scapegoats for this. If corruption and money disappearing into a bottomless pit were grounds for not giving any more money and eventually privatizing the whole thing, then what do we do with the Labour government? The NHS simply does not have anywhere near enough investment ploughed into it, what it does get is very severely reduced by the amount of compensation claims. The saving of the NHS would be a multi billion pound operation, involving complete rebuilding of dated and insanitary hosptials, that the British government prefers to spend on a war and nuclear arms renewal.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

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  7. #37
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Cambyses II
    You're spinning what the "government" wants you to spin and assuming what they want you to assume. We are on the road to private healthcare. A working NHS is not part of the plan, it has to be seen to fail in order to justify the transformation, and corrupt officials and public sector workers are, as ever, the scapegoats for this. If corruption and money disappearing into a bottomless pit were grounds for not giving any more money and eventually privatizing the whole thing, then what do we do with the Labour government? The NHS simply does not have anywhere near enough investment ploughed into it, what it does get is very severely reduced by the amount of compensation claims. The saving of the NHS would be a multi billion pound operation, involving complete rebuilding of dated and insanitary hosptials, that the British government prefers to spend on a war and nuclear arms renewal.
    Erm, it was Aneurin Bevan, the champion of the NHS, who admitted the funding would never end, that his original assessment was wrong. He went on to say it was nevertheless worthwhile, despite the unceasing problems it would cause all governments that kept it going. Criticise Nye for being too Nu-lab if you wish.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Nothing changes



    And have you seen the old man

    Outside the seaman's mission

    Memory fading with

    The medal ribbons that he wears.

    In our winter city,

    The rain cries a little pity

    For one more forgotten hero

    And a world that doesn't care

    or alterntively....

    Oh no more I'll go Waltzing Matilda
    All around the green bush far and near
    For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs both legs
    No more waltzing Matilda for me

    They collected the wounded, the crippled, the maimed
    And they shipped us back home to Australia
    The armless, the legless, the blind and the insane
    Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
    And when the ship pulled into Circular Quay
    I looked at the place where me legs used to be
    And thank Christ there was no one there waiting for me
    To grieve and to mourn and to pity

    And the Band played Waltzing Matilda
    When they carried us down the gangway
    Oh nobody cheered, they just stood there and stared
    Then they turned all their faces away

    Or more importantly

    Those weary old heroes of a forgotten war
    And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
    And I ask myself the same question

    or one of my favourites
    How do you do young Willy McBride ? but he said nothing 'cos he is *******dead .

    So to the subject , some in the other topic said the bad treatment of veterans is because the government cannot run a hospital service , while this subject is the result of the government selling off sections of the hospital service (though part of the american problem is exactly the same especially in the cleaning and maintinance departments ), the truth is , wounded ex-soldiers ain't no bloody use to the government so why do they think the government should bother...apart from a bit of lip service at election time .

  9. #39
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Ribbons and shiny metal cost a lot less and gather far more votes with the electorate then medical care.

    So whose fault is it? The politicians or the electorate?
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  10. #40
    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Why does Blair insist on being the envious younger sibling to Bush?
    If Bush cute puppies up, Blair has to cute puppies up even more.
    Though be wary, Brits, he has yet to eclipse the Iraq War, so brace yourselves.
    Last edited by IrishArmenian; 03-13-2007 at 15:16.

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  11. #41
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Oh, I don't know, in the last decade he's obliterated our centuries-old form of government and replaced it with one almost completely defective, and we an't ever put it back.

    Blair Killed Britain.

    AH HA! I have something to write about, iambic-pentamiter here I come!
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  12. #42
    probably bored Member BDC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Looking at the numbers of soldiers in the hospital in question (only a dozen I think at any one time), I think it's quite likely there just aren't enough injured soldiers to keep a military hospital open. Think of it this way, would you rather be treated in a large hospital with specialists, or in a tiny military hospital where any specialists are going to have to be brought in specially for you, so won't have the experience or team or whatever?

    If you're seriously burned, would you rather be treated by a non-specialist military doctor (I'm not sure how this works in reality, just stressing a point), or by a burns specialist? There's not much question there.

    The real headline here should be "Battles no longer so costly field hospitals are needed!".

  13. #43
    Feeding the Peanut Gallery Senior Member Redleg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Nothing new for the UK, I poem from Kipling


    went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o' beer,
    The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
    The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
    I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
    O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
    But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play,
    The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
    O it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins", when the band begins to play.

    I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
    They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
    They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
    But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
    But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
    The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
    O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

    Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
    Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
    An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
    Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.
    Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, 'ow's yer soul?"
    But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

    We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
    But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
    An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,
    Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;
    While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind",
    But it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind,
    There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
    O it's "Please to walk in front, sir", when there's trouble in the wind.

    You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:
    We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
    Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.
    For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
    But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;
    An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
    An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool -- you bet that Tommy sees!
    O well, seems like 'some' people decide to ruin a perfectly valid threat. Nice going guys... doc bean

  14. #44

    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    This is the same issue that is raised time and time again. If you want the money to pay for defence it's got to come from somewhere and the government seem happier to spend it on ID cards, foreign aid and expense claims.

    I'm a civil servant and I know the hoops we have to jump through get anything done, some of those hoops are perfectly justified but at other times you have to weigh the cost of one piece of kit against another e.g. do we give them thermal sights or do we give them better weapons cos we can't afford both, but all the public see is the media slagging of civil servants for not supplying the troops with what they need.

    And for this we get a 2.5% pay rise on top of a poor basic wage and a bonus scheme that is more like a lottery, and they have the audacity to say we don't care

    Sometimes we all want to leave, but at a time when we can't fill the empty posts we already have if we don't do it who will? Personally I'm just too lazy to get a new job

  15. #45
    L'Etranger Senior Member Banquo's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    More tender loving care from Her Majesty's government.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    This is no way to treat a soldier

    Pte Steve Baldwin was badly injured in the bomb attack that claimed the lives of three friends in Iraq. His doctor says he has post-traumatic stress disorder. The MoD says he must leave the Army because of his 'temperamental unsuitability'. By Terri Judd

    Published: 18 March 2007


    Private Steve Baldwin remembers little about the roadside bomb. His first recollection is coming round on the floor of the armoured Land Rover to find one of his closest friends dead on top of him. Two more colleagues died in the attack.

    "I can remember screaming. I could smell the smoke and soot, feel the grit in my teeth. I kicked open the door of the Snatch and climbed out. I turned around and looked back in. I grabbed Leon [Pte Spicer] and was slapping him and screaming, but I knew he was dead," the 22-year-old explained.

    The two young men, who had trained and joined the 1st Battalion Staffordshire Regiment together, had been mid-way through a patrol in the volatile Amarah region of southern Iraq when a roadside bomb exploded. Pte Baldwin and another soldier were seriously injured.

    Pte Baldwin had happily joined the Army, knowing he would go to Iraq and relishing the opportunity for adventure. He felt excitement and fear in equal measure. But he came back, according to his family and friends, a broken man. He had changed. As well as being physically disabled, he was tortured by nightmares, flashbacks and violent mood swings.

    An NHS doctor diagnosed post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD). Military doctors refused to accept his diagnosis or award Pte Baldwin a medical discharge. Instead, he has been told he will be discharged for " temperamental unsuitability" in effect, fired. To a soldier, once proud to wear a British Army uniform, it is the ultimate insult.

    A week after The Independent on Sunday highlighted the plight of abandoned servicemen and women thousands of whom suffer from PTSD, anxiety and depression but are failed by the system Pte Baldwin said: "They call it a family and say they look after their own. But they don't even phone and check how you are doing. You just feel pushed aside."

    The young man is a striking illustration of the unprecedented levels of mental health problems being suffered by soldiers who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Many complain of feeling discarded and betrayed. Experts are predicting a mental health "time bomb", with thousands more veterans expected to experience severe problems first identified as " shell shock" during the First World War.

    Thousands of British soldiers wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan are living in virtual poverty back in the UK because their compensation payments have been delayed, in some cases by up to three years.

    The government-run Veterans Agency has admitted that more than 7,000 former soldiers are waiting to receive financial help. Critics say the payments system is slow and bureaucratic.

    "It's been hell for my dad and me," Private Kevin Challis told The Mail on Sunday. Private Challis, who was wounded in Iraq in 2004, is still unable to work because of his injuries. He has waited five months for compensation but none has come. He says he cannot afford hot water or heating. He pays for food using his father's pension and his income support of £118, which he receives every two weeks.

    After the IoS investigation into the plight of soldiers, leading politicians, military experts and figures from the arts have accused the Government of breaking the Military Covenant, which guarantees that troops will receive proper care and support in return for their sacrifices. Five hundred people have signed a letter to Tony Blair on the eve of the fourth anniversary of the invasion of Iraq, following disclosures that soldiers are facing homelessness, poor medical treatment and even the threat of prison because of trauma-related behaviour.

    There has been a chorus of condemnation, with politicians from all sides, as well as military figures, accusing Mr Blair of abandoning soldiers after they have served. The country's last military hospital is also due to close this month.

    The Tory MP Boris Johnson said: "There is a strong argument for assuring our armed forces that they will be treated, at the very least, in a separate ward, and in an environment where they are surrounded by people who understand the nature of their experience. The Government should certainly live up to its promises, and recognise the special sacrifice the military makes in the service of this country."

    Sue Smith, whose son Pte Phillip Hewett, 21, was killed in July 2005 and who founded the Military Families Support Group, said: "I can't understand why they can't have a military hospital which would take pressure off the NHS, which is already cracking. Politicians ... don't listen at all to military families."

    Michael Meacher MP said yesterday: "The Government should meet the families of the bereaved to discuss their concerns and to meet their requests for fair and proper treatment for servicemen and women, in line with the Military Covenant."

    Pte Baldwin, who has taken the rare step of speaking out despite still being a serving soldier, says he supports this newspaper's letter to Mr Blair.

    The scars where the roadside bomb tore into Pte Baldwin's arm and back stretch across his body. Surgeons had to stitch other muscles together to replace the triceps he lost in his right arm. Slowly, he has recovered the use of his limb, but it is the mental scarring that has proved so debilitating. The flashbacks and nightmares bring back the horror of the 16 July 2005. He still wakes up in a cold sweat.

    "I had been in the end vehicle but they were short of a man so I joined the front vehicle. Leon and I were to share the top cover. He said, 'I'll go first and you do the radio.' Two minutes later, he was dead," he explained. It was not until someone dragged Pte Baldwin from his futile attempt to revive Pte Spicer that he realised he, too, was bleeding heavily.

    After being injected with morphine, he sat in the back of a Land Rover, awaiting a helicopter as he watched colleagues attempt to revive another friend, Pte Phillip Hewett. "It was like seeing something out of a film. It just wasn't real," he explained.

    It was not until he reached the military field hospital that he realised Pte Hewett and patrol commander 2nd Lt Richard Shearer, 26, had also been killed.

    After he was flown home, the flashbacks increased, the nightmares plagued his sleep, he became prone to violent mood swings and lost his ability to concentrate. "We were driving up a road one day and a moped went past and backfired. I just froze. It brought me to tears," he said.

    He would break into violent rages, smashing up the house. "Sometimes the flashbacks would start with the explosion, sometimes it was something totally different. Seeing Leon and slapping his face is an image that comes back a lot. I would feel myself getting angry for no reason, but I couldn't stop myself. I would kick things and throw things about. I knew it was wrong but I couldn't help it."

    The Army sent him to two psychiatrists, but both refused to diagnose PTSD.

    Mrs Baldwin said: "He used to be so laid back. But when he came back it was awful, I felt I was treading on eggshells. I worked really long hours because I didn't know what I was coming home to. I was terrified almost every day. He was not the man I married. He was a completely different person." They split up, and Pte Baldwin returned to his family home in Nuneaton and locked himself away.

    "I was told I was borderline mental illness. I was not entitled to a medical discharge. I would get a 'temperamentally unsuitable discharge'," he continued. The discharge means he does not get the compensation his family believes he deserves.

    Pte Baldwin was awarded £10,000 for physical injury, but experts said he could lose out without a medical discharge for mental injuries. Instead of automatically being eligible to be considered for further compensation he would have to apply himself, enduring an uphill struggle as military doctors have already dismissed the diagnosis of the NHS.

    Today, Pte Baldwin and his wife are trying to rebuild their marriage and their life. In sharp contrast to the military medical services, the NHS has diagnosed him with PTSD and he is receiving counselling. His regiment and old friends are now back in Iraq. For six months, he has been waiting to hear what is happening with his discharge. He feels abandoned.

    One of the few people outside his family and close friends to keep in touch is Sue Smith, mother of Pte Hewett. "It is disgusting the way he has been treated," she said. "It is pretty sad that these lads do their duty for Queen and country and once they get back injured nobody wants to know."
    "If there is a sin against life, it consists not so much in despairing as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this one."
    Albert Camus "Noces"

  16. #46
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    The betrayal of the Military Covenant by this government is criminal. It was nice to see that the signatures on the petition crossed party lines. Even Brain Eno got in there, one of the musicians I most respect and admire.

    It really has come to something of a state, when a wounded soldier ends up on £113 a fortnight income support.

    The priorities of this regime are arse about face. They are proposing to squander £9.2 billion on hosting a games for cheats and druggies but are not prepared to do their duty to the services by ensuring that they have the right equipment and medical care they need.

    It would be interesting to see what the outcome of an election would be, if one were to be held tomorrow.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

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  17. #47
    Member Member Vidar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    I agree, Criminal, sums it up nicely. But would an election make much difference?

  18. #48
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Vidar
    But would an election make much difference?

  19. #49
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    Ribbons and shiny metal cost a lot less and gather far more votes with the electorate then medical care.

    So whose fault is it? The politicians or the electorate?
    Both: the electorate's for being so shallow and easily-impressed by cheap PR spins and the politicians' for taking advantage of this.

    Seeing as the military covenant has been broken, I think that troops would be fully justified in refusing to be deployed to theatres of war where their persons may be put at risk.
    www.thechap.net
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  20. #50
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by King Henry V
    Seeing as the military covenant has been broken, I think that troops would be fully justified in refusing to be deployed to theatres of war where their persons may be put at risk.
    when they joined the army they know they may be put at risk, its what they're payed for, i agree that they are undervalued and not well looked after, but troops have little justification for refusing to fight when ordered too...

    if the army command refused to be deployed then it's much more credible


  21. #51
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by Scurvy
    when they joined the army they know they may be put at risk, its what they're payed for, i agree that they are undervalued and not well looked after, but troops have little justification for refusing to fight when ordered too...

    if the army command refused to be deployed then it's much more credible

    This may come as a bit of a surprise but soldiers don't join up to die or become maimed. Most do it for the crack. The issue here is the implicit understanding that if and when a serviceman is called upon to fight for his country, then the government of the day has a duty of care. A duty to ensure that the serviceman has the equipment he needs, (as in desert boots for desert fighting, as a pose to the modern day equivalent of ammunition boots for marching up and down the square) and it has a duty to look after the man if he is wounded and his family, if he is killed. This is patently not happening.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

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  22. #52
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    From what I have read in the kinks in this thread, the military covenant has been presented as such:
    Soldiers agree to put their lives at risk in the best interests of the country. In return, the government agrees to provide proper levels of care and support for those who may have been injured as a result of military activities.
    As far as I can see, this contract has been breached by the government, therefore soldiers are under no obligation to uphold their side of the bargain.

    Quote Originally Posted by BDC
    Looking at the numbers of soldiers in the hospital in question (only a dozen I think at any one time), I think it's quite likely there just aren't enough injured soldiers to keep a military hospital open. Think of it this way, would you rather be treated in a large hospital with specialists, or in a tiny military hospital where any specialists are going to have to be brought in specially for you, so won't have the experience or team or whatever?

    If you're seriously burned, would you rather be treated by a non-specialist military doctor (I'm not sure how this works in reality, just stressing a point), or by a burns specialist? There's not much question there.

    The real headline here should be "Battles no longer so costly field hospitals are needed!".
    The articles have mainly referred to soldiers who have experienced psychological trauma as a result of service in the Army. In such an instance, military doctors are very much needed, as many soldiers feel that only doctors who had military experience are able to understand their plight.
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  23. #53
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    This may come as a bit of a surprise but soldiers don't join up to die or become maimed. Most do it for the crack. The issue here is the implicit understanding that if and when a serviceman is called upon to fight for his country, then the government of the day has a duty of care. A duty to ensure that the serviceman has the equipment he needs, (as in desert boots for desert fighting, as a pose to the modern day equivalent of ammunition boots for marching up and down the square) and it has a duty to look after the man if he is wounded and his family, if he is killed. This is patently not happening.
    indeed, the government are not doing enough, but (unfortunately) would claim it is, as far as i can tell soldiers have very little influence over whether they are deployed or not, they have every right to complain about the lack of help, but refusal to obey orders is a rather dangerous route to go down


  24. #54
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Mutinies have occured in the UK forces in the past. Some might be surprising.

    Invergordon Mutiny was an industrial action by around a thousand sailors in the British Atlantic Fleet, that took place on 15-16 September 1931. For two days, ships of the Royal Navy at Invergordon were in open mutiny, in one of the few military strikes in British history.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  25. #55
    ............... Member Scurvy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache
    Invergordon Mutiny was an industrial action by around a thousand sailors in the British Atlantic Fleet, that took place on 15-16 September 1931. For two days, ships of the Royal Navy at Invergordon were in open mutiny, in one of the few military strikes in British history.
    but 300 or so of them lost their jobs, and the leaders were jailed, it may have been successful, but at a price


  26. #56
    Bringing down the vulgaroisie Member King Henry V's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    However, do you really think any present-day governenment could afford to take the same action if such an even occured?
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  27. #57

    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    For two days, ships of the Royal Navy at Invergordon were in open mutiny, in one of the few military strikes in British history.
    There have been lots of mutinies and strikes in British miltary history not a few . Lots and lots if you include empire and dominion forces(including empire and dominion forces stationed in Britain) .

  28. #58
    Hand Bacon Member ShadeHonestus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadeHonestus
    I remember the subject coming up when we trained with some British Royal Marines, but can't for the life of me remember. How much is the enlisted man payed over there? Is it in line with other civil servants?
    Anyone have an answer to the question I posted in #10?
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  29. #59
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    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    I agree also, what's being done (and not done) to these soldiers is completely criminal.

    My best, most realistic suggestion is to heavily co-opt the media on this. Get as much heavy media attention and focus on it as you can. For better or worse, there's no real way to get a people fired up than through news on their TV or Newspapers, esp. when something 'sacred' like a nation's veteran soldiers who were injured in the line of duty are being sorely mistreated. Get enough focus on it, then enough politicians whose careers depend on good ratings will notice, and it will get proper attention. It may suck, but it's the best thing I can think of.

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  30. #60

    Default Re: Shameful betrayal of UK's soldiers

    Anyone have an answer to the question I posted in #10?
    Here you go ....http://www.armyjobs.mod.uk/RegularAr...Leave/Soldier/
    lets face it those wages are crap , even if you make it to W.O.1 .

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