Grand Theft Auto IV (and R* rant)

[lars573]

Dumb question - but what are GTA games like? I play mainly strategy games and RPGs, so it is not clear they would appeal to me. But I've enjoyed Max Payne 2 and Mafia a lot - are there any simularities? I'd be looking for a game with a good story, characters and some fun combat. Stealing cars and running over innocents etc has no appeal in and of itself.

If I were to try one, which one should it be? (PC only).

Either of the two GTA III spin-offs (Vice City and San Andreas) are good. Vice City is based on Miami in the 80's. Pastel shirts and vapid me generation, Scarface, and Miami vice jokes (very dark humor though). San Andreas is a mix of California and Nevada in the early 90's. Both have good stories. And a wide variety of missions. San Andreas has some RPG-esque elements for the main character CJ. He needs to eat. He can get fat, he can build muscle, and he can level up his stats in driving, running, swimming, etc.

[edyzmedieval]

I like SA because it's a mix of RPG, in depth game, cars and missions to accomplish.

Anyone tried the Hot Coffee mod?

[Adrian II]

San Andreas is a mix of California and Nevada in the early 90's. Both have good stories. And a wide variety of missions. San Andreas has some RPG-esque elements for the main character CJ. He needs to eat. He can get fat, he can build muscle, and he can level up his stats in driving, running, swimming, etc.

Yeah, I really love that game (EU PC version). It even has some RTS aspects in that you can create gangs and use them tactically to conquer territory.

If it weren't for moral scares and legal pressure from Brussels, GTA would be rated 12+ in my country. My kids (10 and 12) aren't the least impressed, since they play the game (like all other games they play) under my benevolent supervision. I know what games are all about and I teach them to regard games as 'magic circles' where reality is suspended, even though they refer to reality for depth and context. So they understand that GTA SA is a spoof of a spoof of black gang culture, and as such it is very educational; they realize that in an area where everything is throw-away - morals, food, cars - life itself becomes a throw-away.

Oh, and they love to pick up the dildo in the police showers and use it as a truncheon..

[Caius]

Holy necromancy thread Batman, I remember this thread!

[Craterus]

So, who already knew that GTA IV will include drink-driving?

http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_threa...read_id=105244

[Viking]

So, who already knew that GTA IV will include drink-driving?

http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_threa...read_id=105244

Boomshine mission, or something, much of the same.

[Mikeus Caesar]

So, who already knew that GTA IV will include drink-driving?

http://www.eurogamer.net/forum_threa...read_id=105244

Yeah, while it is meant to show the stupidity of drink driving, i can tell the media will instantly latch on to it and say that this 'evil' game is promoting drink driving to our poor dear children, rather than focusing on what it's doing to help show the stupidity of it, and just why our poor dear children are playing it anyway.

[Craterus]

It's not really a single mission. It appears to be similar to the 'dates' on San Andreas. It says your relationship with people increases if you take them out for a drink and get them home in one piece.

Would be nice to have the choice to play 'drunk' all the time though.

[rajpoot]

Btw, what do you think would be the age of the protagonist in the game? Chap looks pretty old in the trailers.......

[Adrian II]

Would be nice to have the choice to play 'drunk' all the time though.

I hope the devs won't wax educational on the issue. Pullease. It'll be fun to find out how many homies, cops and Grannies you can crush on the streets in a fit of drunkenness. Just like it's fun to try and waste as many cops in one go, without either dying or pay-'n'-sprayin. Molotov cocktails are great for that. Also, it pays off to stop a lot of cars in a street (park your own car across the road to begin with, kill some other drivers, etcetera) and once you have built up a nice traffic jam, set of a chain reaction with a bazooka or a well-aimed shot into a gas tank. "Vavoom!" goes a [insert racial expletive] from the dockside..

[frogbeastegg]

I'm going to start playing this in a bit, the 360 version. As I said over in the "What are you playing?" topic chances are evenly split between my hating it or liking it enough that I can tolerate the aspects which don't appeal to me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-I don't like gangsters, gangs, and all of that. I don't find them interesting, and I have never found anything related to them likeable, be it books, films, or games.

-I don't care for games in modern settings that much.

-I don't like driving games.

-I am not fond of swearing, ultra-violence and all that in my games. I can play and enjoy a game with it in (most recently Condemned) but given a choice I'll do without it, thanks.

-If I'm going to play a thief then I'd rather play a Garrett style one. i.e. sneak about in the dark, kill very few people, and after a well-guarded item. A skilled thief, not a thug or a looter.

-GTA as a series is one which I have never played. Too many glaring faults lurking under the hype.

-I don't find running over pedestrians and killing prostitutes funny.

BUT!

+ I have always liked sandbox games.

+ GTA + Bart Simpson + Dennis the Menace = Bully. GTA + wild west theme + smaller, more concentrated game world = Gun. I liked that game too.

+ GTA4 finally fixes the more glaring faults, e.g. the hideous checkpointing and difficulty spikes.

+ I love the animation! The game looks fabulous in action in the bajillion and twelve videos out there. It is technically impressive, and I'd like a closer look at it in action.

+ This one is getting a lot of praise for its story and characters.

+ A lot of the content is optional. It always has been, whatever the hysterics wanting it banned say. I don't have to murder random people in the street or whatever.

+ I play a lot of niche and smaller budget games; sometimes it is nice to load up a huge budget game and see what can be done when you've got $100 million to spend.

Any tips for a frog new to the series?

[rajpoot]

-I don't like gangsters, gangs, and all of that. I don't find them interesting, and I have never found anything related to them likeable, be it books, films, or games.

-I don't care for games in modern settings that much.

-I don't like driving games.

-I am not fond of swearing, ultra-violence and all that in my games. I can play and enjoy a game with it in (most recently Condemned) but given a choice I'll do without it, thanks.

-If I'm going to play a thief then I'd rather play a Garrett style one. i.e. sneak about in the dark, kill very few people, and after a well-guarded item. A skilled thief, not a thug or a looter.

-GTA as a series is one which I have never played. Too many glaring faults lurking under the hype.

-I don't find running over pedestrians and killing prostitutes funny.

You're saying you don't like anything the GTA games are all about....

[frogbeastegg]

Don't like anything about the setting, yup. The sandbox, on the other hand ...

[rajpoot]

Well, considering that you don't like any of the stuff that is actually supposed to be done in the sandbox gameplay......driving, shooting, causing mayhem in general, I really doubt you'll find the game interesting. Many other sandbox games out there though. Assasin's Creed I have not played first hand, but it's supposed to be really nice.

[Craterus]

I don't think you have to be killing prostitutes to enjoy the sandbox play.

Here's what I'll say:

So far, Liberty City is great. It looks fantastic and has character. It's also huge (could be good, could be bad).

There's lots to do, even outside of the missions.

Hmm, the real strength would be (I hope, but not too far in yet) the story. GTA always has good storylines which, by the way, SHOULD BE PUT IN SPOIL. Grrr, I didn't even want to know about an ulterior motive. Damnit.

The driving is certainly a lot more difficult than the old games so that's something that you have to get used to.

Hmm, that's all I have to say. I like it so far, but I've been playing GTA games since 2002 (GTA3).

frogbeastegg, I think you should play it for a few hours and see if it grabs you.

[Craterus]

Well, today I discovered that doing any kind of job for Little Jacob and his friend is generally a bad idea.

[frogbeastegg]

I don't remember playing a game which made me swing between frustration and fun so frequently as this. One minute it's great; the city is alive and I'm doing neat things. The next I run into an issue, or some outdated design, or it crashes on me.

My biggest, most persistent, tooth-gnashing bugbear is the interface. The mini-map is microscopic. All of the text is tiny. The phone has black text on a dark grey background, hard to read even in the large font size. The targeting hud is too small as well; I can't see how many blocks of health targets have. It can't be blamed on my TV either, as I'm playing it on a 32inch HD screen using a HDMI connection. Nor my eyesight; I have 20/19 vision with my contact lenses.

The last mission ('Clean Getaway') I completed is a text book example of the Gah! factor:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was tasked with collecting a car for Vlad and driving it to his lock up. No problem. I hopped on the train as instructed and travelled to the location. The car was parked a short distance from the station, marked by a blue blob on the mini map. As soon as I arrive Niko starts speaking to the guy who owns it.

Once the conversation is done a lengthy tutorial text pops up on the screen, telling me how to sucker punch someone. It's in the usual tiny text, so it's not easy to read. The guy I'm meant to be practicing it on goes nutso on me as soon as the conversation is finished, so I have to try and defend myself while reading this text. To block you have to time your button presses, so you need to focus on the attacker - the guy who is on the opposite side of the screen to the text. You can see one or the other, not both. That's not hassle enough. A nearby policeman started shooting at me (train of logic: that guy is being beaten up and is not fighting back at all, I've got to kill him!) and I acquired a 2 star wanted rating.

A couple of shots later and I'm on my last hit. I leg it before I die. After much running (why do I have to hold a button to run? I'm not using a d-pad here) about on foot I lose the wanted rating, and can limp back for another go at picking up the car. The tutorial text is long gone, and will never be repeated. All I know about the sucker punch is that it's something to do with B in combination with something else, and unless I find instructions on the internet I never will know.

When I got back to the car the area was deserted. I picked it up and drove off with no problems. I take it to be cleaned, and drop it off in the lock up. Great. The game autosaves, and I breathe a sigh of relief. That might be it for irritation for a bit. I head on over to meet Vlad for the next mission. The game hangs at the loading screen.

This game needs a manual. A book which tells you the controls and features, not the self-indulgent pamphlet it comes with.

I spent a while driving around on the legitimate taxi missions, and I swapped to the first person camera. I'm now fine unless I have to drive at high speeds. Unfortunately that's what my next mission is asking me to do. Through loads of sharp corners. While watching a tiny blob on my tiny mini map. Failed 4 times in a row, and getting very fed up. I'm a bad chase driver and admit it, however the game could give me a helping hand. I have the distinct feeling that if it drew a line on the mini map from my location to the target I'd do much better as I'd know with a glance which direction to go. Plus the big line is easier to spot then a tiny blob. Then I'd be able to concentrate on where I'm going.

As you may be able to guess, I am currently on the frustrated side, not the fun side

Wait till you play the mission where you have to steal coke and "evade" many DEA agents. If you go through that one with only killing one person I'd be very impressed.

If I get that far without snapping the disc I'll be impressed.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Yeah, I really love that game (EU PC version). It even has some RTS aspects in that you can create gangs and use them tactically to conquer territory.

If it weren't for moral scares and legal pressure from Brussels, GTA would be rated 12+ in my country. My kids (10 and 12) aren't the least impressed, since they play the game (like all other games they play) under my benevolent supervision. I know what games are all about and I teach them to regard games as 'magic circles' where reality is suspended, even though they refer to reality for depth and context. So they understand that GTA SA is a spoof of a spoof of black gang culture, and as such it is very educational; they realize that in an area where everything is throw-away - morals, food, cars - life itself becomes a throw-away.

Oh, and they love to pick up the dildo in the police showers and use it as a truncheon..

You sound like an awesome father. The world needs more people like you.

[Adrian II]

You sound like an awesome father. The world needs more people like you.

In some ways I'm still a kid myself, really. Maybe that's why I feel very strongly about parental guidance. I never negotiate with kids, it makes them uncertain and gives them a fake sense of control (which they are aware of). Of course kids should have their own space where they can do what they like while nobody enters. But as soon as children enter grown-up spaces in this world (like adult games), they need an adult companion, someone who loves them, who explains things, and who sets an example if need be.

For instance the best way to familiarize your children with dental checks is to take them along on your own check, to let them stay and watch how you handle it. Or you can show them that certain emotions are okay, or that adult stuff often isn't as adult as it's advertized to be. Show them what's important and what isn't in a given situation. I teach them all the four-letter words so they will never be impressed by them, and I also teach them how proper language can be much more effective, and deadly.. It's simple really, it just takes some effort.


A Buffalo wrecked by my 10-year-old..


The quickest, slickest motherlover in the hood

The talk stations in SA was pretty good too, but VCPR is the best. The other radio stations are very good as well. Seriously, the game is worth buying just for the radio stations. Does Rockstar sell soundtracks of the games? I want to port it on my iPod or something.

K-Jah is my favourite, with Marshall choking on-air on his own ganja - "Oww, this stuff goes straight to my head, man. Ah teenk ah need a doe-not."

BTW The Cesar Vialpando lowrider dance challenge is indeed much easier with the Num keys! Now, Zero's darn model plane mission, that's what I broke my teeth on time and again.

I think they have a DVD-series out with the music of all the stations, but it seems they integrated Radio Los Santos with Playback FM on one DVD -- this while RLS is teh favorite station among GTA players!

P.S. Speaking of GTA/SA, does anyone know a way around the PC 'cheat bug'? There are so many cheat codes for this game and they can be entered so easily in the screen that you sometimes activate a cheat unknowingly. From then on your game is fubar. Is there a way to block the console registering code?

[Quirinus]

I've never actually encountered this problem before-- the cheat codes seem to be totally random, and spread across the keyboard. Which cheats did you activate?

[Adrian II]

Which cheats did you activate?

I don't know! It doesn't say so anywhere..
And even if I did, I wouldn't know how to undo it.