Saudi Rape Victim Sentenced to 90 Lashes

[PanzerJaeger]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256980,00.html

So the problem with Islam is simply a small issue with some radical fundamentalists? Things like this in Arabia and most other arab nations seem rather state sanctioned.

All I can say is that I understand the economics and the politics behind our(the US's) special relationship with these "people", but morally it is an abberation.

I just hope that when we ween ourselves off of oil, we leave our muslim "allies" to the hell they have created for themselves, and our children don't judge us too harshly.

[Devastatin Dave]

Its no surprise really. For so many professed historians on this website its amazing how so few know so little about the beginnings of this belief system. I guess Muhammad had some devine power because he even has many secularists defending his creation. I bet this thread gets locked in a bout 4 posts since Islam is not allowed to be scrutinised anywhere these days.

[Csargo]

Sickening really.

[Papewaio]

It is sickening what people do in the name of faith.

So PJ and DD, based on this child brides in Utah are they the responsibility of all Christians and Jesus?

[Devastatin Dave]

It is sickening what people do in the name of faith.

So PJ and DD, based on this child brides in Utah are they the responsibility of all Christians and Jesus?

Neither, Mormans. Joseph Smith created the Church of Jesus Christ (about the only part of Jesus in the "faith" is in the name) of Latter Day Saints in the mid 1800's from gold tablets he found but mysteriously dissapeared when questioned about their authentisity. Google Joseph Smith and do some research before you lump his "beliefs" into Bible believing Christianity. Mormanisn is about as Christian as Budism. But we're not talking about that cult, we're currently discussing the one that happens to be involved in a lot of nasty little incursions all over the face of the globe.
But the underage marraiges probably would not have been a problem for the Prophet either since he had "marital relations" with a 9 year old (he did wait a couple of years, he married her when she was 6. He must have been busy "converting" Medina at the time).

[rory_20_uk]

In the UK an Islamic council has come up with guidelines on how schools can fit in with their religion. Of course it is up to the schools and the majority in the country to accede to their needs, and of course no alteration is required of Islam.

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst examples of Islam. The sooner they run out of oil and influence the better.

[Tribesman]

They should follow the proper punishments as set down in the bible , lashes for rape victims is just too lenient .
Sharia law is lightweight , they should get more biblical .

[doc_bean]

Don't confuse an excuse with an actual reason.

[Pannonian]

In the UK an Islamic council has come up with guidelines on how schools can fit in with their religion. Of course it is up to the schools and the majority in the country to accede to their needs, and of course no alteration is required of Islam.

Saudi Arabia is one of the worst examples of Islam. The sooner they run out of oil and influence the better.

We invaded the wrong country. If we were ever to invade a country because of the oppressiveness of its brand of Islam, it should have been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Iran and Iraq are waaay down the list.

[Fisherking]

SAUDI KIDNAP, RAPE VICTIM FACES LASHING FOR 'CRIME' OF BEING ALONE WITH MAN NOT RELATED TO HER

YES IT IS NUTS! ITS THEIR LAWS…SO WHAT DO YOU WANT, A HUMAN RIGHTS OUTCRY?

THERE SHOULD BE…BUT I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH.

[HoreTore]

Well, I don't think it's because of their religion... Why? Because we did the same thing here in europe a couple of centuries ago... You can still see the remains of that when there are discussions on rape - there are still a few who deep down blame rape on "those dirty whores".

Saudi Arabia is just a couple of centuries behind, they never experienced the rise of liberalism we had here in the west.

BTW, about Muhammad... One of our kings(Norway) married a 10 year old and got her pregnant at that age too... This was around year 1100. It's simply the way society was back then, believe it or not....When you'll probably die at the age of 30, you're not going to wait till you're 25 to get married, are you?

[Banquo's Ghost]

YES IT IS NUTS! ITS THEIR LAWS…SO WHAT DO YOU WANT, A HUMAN RIGHTS OUTCRY?

THERE SHOULD BE…BUT I DOUBT IT VERY MUCH.

I can assure you that human rights organsations are very active in this area. I have posted some appeals in this very forum.

Experience tells us that too much publicity at the early stages often ensures the mullahs get defensive and demand the worst punishments as an example they cannot be swayed by "western" ideals. It is usually only when all avenues have been exhausted that Amnesty, for example, starts trying heavy publicity.

In contrast, with western democratic governments which abuse human rights, it is often more effective to get the publicity machine in high gear right away, as they are less likely to be stubborn if they can characterise the situation as a mistake.

That's why you tend to hear more of a song and dance against western abuses. But don't for a moment think we allow this kind of thing to go unchallenged.

[Fragony]

They should follow the proper punishments as set down in the bible , lashes for rape victims is just too lenient .
Sharia law is lightweight , they should get more biblical .

Such devotion defending your favorite religion, but what exactly does the bible say about rape victims and what should be done to them, nothing.

[InsaneApache]

A thought provoking article from a women who lived the life of a Moslem wife.

When we landed in Kabul, an airport official smoothly confiscated my US passport. “Don’t worry, it’s just a formality,” my husband assured me. I never saw that passport again. I later learnt that this was routinely done to foreign wives —

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/com...cle1480090.ece

Not altogether OT but a valuable insight into cultural and religious differences.

[English assassin]

Saudi Arabia is a backward oppressive misogynist regime peddling extremist brand of Islam?

In other news, bear found defecating in woods, Pope in "I'm catholic" shock.

But yeah, if it gives PJ a thrill, the SA regime truly sucks. For the sake of spoiling the hang of DD's trousers*, wahhabist Islam also sucks.

* but we are still just good friends

[Ser Clegane]

but what exactly does the bible say about rape victims and what should be done to them, nothing.

Does the Quran specify how to treat rape victims? I have some doubts that it says that rape victims should get the whip - but please feel free to provide some Quran-quotes to convince me otherwise.

The question is, is this abuse based on religion or is based on an extremely patriachic society that we also see ion other regions with other religions (e.g., rural areas in India)? (to be clear - barbaric acts like these should not be tolerated, no matter what the roots are, but I believe that it might be a good idea to at least try to understand what the roots are).

[InsaneApache]

What's the penalty for 'sucking' in Saudi?

[Fragony]

Does the Quran specify how to treat rape victims? I have some doubts that it says that rape victims should get the whip - but please feel free to provide some Quran-quotes to convince me otherwise.

Beats me to be honest, I never said there was. Apparently the bible does, waiting for Tribes.

[Spetulhu]

Such devotion defending your favorite religion, but what exactly does the bible say about rape victims and what should be done to them, nothing.

No, it does tell us. A woman who gets raped in the city is to be put to death since it's obvious she didn't scream for help. She didn't protect her father's (or husband's) property. If the crime happens in the countryside the woman isn't punished, there might not have been anyone to hear her cries for help. The rapist gets the death penalty in any case.

Study holy books. It's good for you to see how absurd they can be.

[Fragony]

No, it does tell us. A woman who gets raped in the city is to be put to death since it's obvious she didn't scream for help. She didn't protect her father's (or husband's) property. If the crime happens in the countryside the woman isn't punished, there might not have been anyone to hear her cries for help. The rapist gets the death penalty in any case.

Study holy books. It's good for you to see how absurd they can be.

lol that's pretty damn evil That's a new one for me, that in the new testament or the old?

[Andres]

For so many professed historians on this website its amazing how so few know so little about the beginnings of this belief system.

Don't blame the belief system, blame those who commit these kind of cruel acts in the name of it.

[naut]

Does the Quran specify how to treat rape victims? I have some doubts that it says that rape victims should get the whip - but please feel free to provide some Quran-quotes to convince me otherwise.

Been a while since I read it, but I don't think there is a specific passage IIRC.

EDIT: These are the only passages I can identify with mentions of rape.

And the commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said: "Will you let Moses and his people corrupt the land, and abandon you and your gods?" He said: "We will kill their children and rape their women; we will be supreme over them."

And We have saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to kill your children and rape your women; and in that was a great trial from your Lord.

And Moses said to his people: "Remember God's blessings upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh. They used to inflict the worst punishment upon you, and they used to murder your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great trial from your Lord."

Then, when the truth came to them from Us, they said: "Kill the children of those who believed with him, and rape their women." But the scheming of the rejecters is always in error.

None really call for the punishment of rape victims.

[English assassin]

What's the penalty for 'sucking' in Saudi?

Ah, there was an article in the Guardian on islamic sex counselling a while back. Struggling to keep this within org rules, oral love is apparently acceptably Islamic, but religious opinion was divided on err, at what point Allah required the act should end.

I am NOT making this up.

[InsaneApache]

Ah, there was an article in the Guardian on islamic sex counselling a while back. Struggling to keep this within org rules, oral love is apparently acceptably Islamic, but religious opinion was divided on err, at what point Allah required the act should end.

I am NOT making this up.

Self evident surely?

[caravel]

We invaded the wrong country. If we were ever to invade a country because of the oppressiveness of its brand of Islam, it should have been Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Iran and Iraq are waaay down the list.

The difference here is between regimes that are co-operating, and those that are not co-operating. The Saudis co-operate - Iraq, Afghanistan and Iran do not.

[Fragony]

Self evident surely?

uh-huh



sorry had to

[Husar]

lol that's pretty damn evil That's a new one for me, that in the new testament or the old?

Just guess, it can't be that hard.
Besides, I wouldn't say it's outright absurd, since in a city there are many people who could hear her scream and help(yes, I know there are also shock moments etc, but we have a new testament now, don't we?). The new testament version would be that God sees her heart(and whether she wants it or not) and will then judge her after her death. If only there was a new Sharia law about love and peace...

Well, makes you wonder whether people there even know what "love" is, I mean, do these men really "love" their women? I thought love was some kind of fundamental human feeling but some people on earth seem not to know what that is or at least do not base their marriages on it and prefer to base them on lust.

[English assassin]

Well, makes you wonder whether people there even know what "love" is, I mean, do these men really "love" their women? I thought love was some kind of fundamental human feeling but some people on earth seem not to know what that is or at least do not base their marriages on it and prefer to base them on lust.

Err, the idea of marrying for love is quite a new one, and a fairly minority view?

Yer peasant and yer lord might have married to get a good worker, or to cement an alliance, but love didn't come into it.

[Adrian II]

Such devotion defending your favorite religion, but what exactly does the bible say about rape victims and what should be done to them, nothing.

Off the mark as usual, my friend. The woman was sentenced not because she was raped, but because she was in a car with a man who was not her husband or direct kin. Some of the rapists were given sentences of 10 months to five years in prison. All this is not based directly on the Quran or the Hadith, which require, among other things, that rapists be stoned.

You may be surprised to hear there is something like the Hadith which is considered a source of law beside the Quran. It means 'tradition'.

There is a Hadith that speaks of rape at the time of the Prophet. Again, you may be surprised. The stance taken by Muhammed, a.k.a. the 'caravan robber' to quote that other profund Islam expert, Dev Dave, is not as primitive as one might think.

From a Hadith narrated by Sunan Abu Dawud who lived two hundred years after the Prophet and compiled 41 ahadith books :

'One day (at the time of the Prophet) a woman left her house to go and pray at the Mosque. On her way she was met by a man who forced her to have sexual intercourse. The woman screamed while the man raped her. After he raped her the man ran away. A group of men (who accompanied the Prophet on his flight form Mecca to Medina) passed by the girl and she said to them (pointing in the direction of the man running) “that man just raped me”. They then ran after him and caught him and when face to face with the woman she said “yes that was the person”. They went to the Prophet and the man said “Yes Prophet it was me who did this”. The Prophet said to the girl “go now, God has already pardoned you”. The Prophet then said to the man (while appreciating his confession) “stone him”. He then said “Actually, he has already learnt his lesson and if someone learns their lesson all the people of Median will understand”.'

[Fragony]

Of the mark, I didn't even shoot. Anyway, truly fascinating. What does the hadith say about multiple personality disorders?