Htw Spin-off Mod - Ancient: TW

[Bonfire]

if only we still had the libary of alaxndros still in modren day human lives.

then we would be able to historcialy correct info down to the very Capital T.

[macsen rufus]

if only we still had the libary of alaxndros still in modren day human lives.

So true

Even then there were myths around - it's ironic that we probably know more (through archaeology) about Mycenae than Homer ever did, and yet people still think he's a reliable source....

[Bonfire]

i blame thoes damn arabic+ Persian bastards for burning..

if it wasn't for them we would never know. if homer was right or not.

[axel]

Hi macsen
I hade my first CTD but it did nt show me a message so i have no info of it i am sry mate i started again at the same time where i hade my CTD and then the game played perfect again ill keep you inform mate

[macsen rufus]

Hi Axel - tnx for the info - are you still playing the Mycenaeans? Anyway, I guess if it reloaded and continued it's probably just one of those random MTW CTDs

Not quite so much progress this week, I've had a pretty lousy week at work, and haven't really been in the mood for modding - just killing lots of Bronze Age sprites (I've just wiped out the Hittites and Ugarit with my hordes of Sea Peoples, and Egypt will be next )

Even so, there are some new units and a few other tweaks. The Etruscans have their own names now, I've added "Ahhiyawan" heavy infantry for the Sea Peoples (and other barbarians), some other units renamed.

I'll probably add an "Armorican" faction in Brittany and Normandy, then the High Era should be pretty much complete and I can start to sort out the new files for a patch. And I guess I'll put the new factions into the Early startpos as well so it all works.

Then I can look at the Late Era, which will have quite a few differences for unit rosters and yet more new factions etc.

[Bonfire]

i was wonderif you have need of another modder to step up and hel put.

i'f only good at editing text files. graphicsuch as animations and pics incorperated in the game im totaly clueless but when it comes to editing text files. it comes natrul to me.

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after words i was wondering if you would be willing to help me witha hudge project after wards. PM or reply

[macsen rufus]

What I really need, Bonfire, is feedback from play-testers - but as I hope to get the next patch out soon, maybe after that Then we can get people testing out the High era as well, whilst I start on the Late.

I've still got huge stacks of research stuff to read through (mostly thanks to Axel ), and a couple of books on their way from Amazon I'm waiting for. A few new animations would be nice, but I don't really have the tools or the time for that myself. When this one is done, I'll probably put my feet up, complete a campaign or two, and then catch up with all the housework My lawn's not been mown for a month

[Bonfire]

hmm maybe if you released a beta JUst for custom battle not campaign..

i'll give it a try. and give you major feed back

[macsen rufus]

For some reason custom battles don't work at all

[axel]

Hi mate
yes i still are playing the Mycenaeans ill be starting a new campain tonight and i am going to play 2 campains ill be back

[Bonfire]

ok.. send me the link and i will download andplay the campagin beta you got. and give ya feed back or are you talking about your bronze age for htw. not the xl. cause i got the htw. already and xl. but im assuming feed back oyu need is from the htw bronze for xl .. in which cause i do have the mod.

[macsen rufus]

It's the stand-alone "Ancient" mod for XL (not the HTW BA scenario) where I need the feedback, and if anyone needs a link, get it here

Ancient TW beta install

I guess "Bronze Age" isn't too great a name for the new mod, as a) it causes confusion with the HTW BA scenario, and b) only the early era is truly the (Late) Bronze Age. From High era onwards we're really in the early iron age (at least as far as the Near East is concerned)

BUT there will be a new version out, with the High Era - I still need to go back and tweak the Early era to work with the same prod files, and then should be able to release both a new install, and a patch to upgrade from the original install above.

Version 2 will include: new units, new factions, new tech tree, and a new era.

[Bonfire]

now i have somthing to do instead of twiddling my thumbs eat and smoke cigs while reaosionf my lore on lord of the rings instaed i can be haelping oyu beta.....

lord of the rings beta 2.0 for alexanders hould be out very soon.

this will keep my preocupied until then.

keep up the good work. and for less DL time. the next thing should just be a patch. with the included facitons.

well its close ot 300 MB i geus iw ill go make dinner. i'll reply ina couple days when i had the chance to play the map fully.

[Bonfire]

some of the things i notice right off the bat..

seeing how you want ppls opion being it your first beta.

1. you didn't make it into a install wizard.exe

2. the assyrian tribe last time i check were hannibals and ther fortress i mean walls were made out of wood and impaled corpse they ate.. its also why the hitties invaded them cause they were feeding off the colonies around there empire.

3 they also had seige equipment along with everybody else... you didn't include a battering ram for custom play.. this seriosuly limits game play to only non castle defences.

i'll get more back to you as i see it.

[Bonfire]

your instalation method won't work because. when you copy and past the content within the folder all it does is overwrite the folders. not the files within it. and that will mes up your MTW contect and cause CTD..

[Bonfire]

did you jsut want me to test the custom play . or the campaign cause i did the method you told me about in yor read me but there is a file mising. load_table somthing 0_0000 error

[macsen rufus]

Hi Bonfire - don't see why it gave you a missing file error - there are a few other folks out there have installed it okay (and I tested it myself as a fresh install on my own machine.) Are you fully patched up on MTW VI and XL? XL version I use is 2.1 Lite (ie no music pack). Windows will overwrite any files in directories that have the same name. Do you have the EXACT error message it gives, might be a clue in there?

Quite true - I haven't done an installer Maybe when it's finished, but not top of my list.

I don't know where you were reading about the Assyrians being cannibals (I assume you mean cannibals?) but that's the first time I've heard that one. Sounds like Hittite or possibly Israelite-captivity propaganda. Either way in the era they were amongst the most advanced, not least advanced, peoples.

There is no siege equipment because it hadn't been invented yet. The game ends 700BC approx, battering rams not attested before 600BC approx, and these were Assyrian - still I might put them in for the Late Era, even if they are a little bit anachronistic (some sources suggest something rudimentary in the 900 or 800s BC, but not conclusively). Before that there were only siege towers and ladders, neither of which MTW can do, and undermining - so I might make a "mining team" as Cegorach used in PMTW, though, as one way of dealing with stone walls.

As mentioned earlier in the thread custom battles DON'T WORK! If you could find out why, that would be a help. (Personally I never play custom battles, if it's not part of a campaign the battle means nothing to me But I appreciate some folks like one-off battles, so it would be nice to get custom battles functioning )

[Bonfire]

one thing i notice while playing the gernamic tried. after about 40-50 years go by the armies began to grow and there were no rebel lands well.

lets jsut say this. make a rebel unit to 120 only recruitable by rebels. and all it takes is a castle not castle1-castle9 what ever.. only recruitable by rebels.


reduce all the unit size of all factions by 50% beside the rebel unit.. in the rebel build prod have them focus more on this unit.. if they have a castle/fort

this way nations take longer to expand. unless there adjacent border is that of another tribe.

i pretty much finished testing the gernamic tried i have completle control ofte sea regions in the north and brittania is under my control/including ireland.

after taking over it the faction under me (would be russians)

have so much military power due to the expense in which unts can be produced i had no way to fend off there attacks.

maybe raising the units that factions are allowed to be made by an extra 100 and lil higher support cost..so they don't raise so many troops..

[Bonfire]

man i hate not being able to edit my post..


anyways.. its either lower the income production or higher the support cost to reduce such large forces.

in all of it comes down to ..

lower unit size-higher support

rebels have unique unit only they can make. make it 100 or 120 give it also 2 morale starting. to prevent expansion of all factions..

alter the rebels so they don't expand but only defend.

reduce all faction unit size to disable such fast expansions..

reduce farm and income production to way lower numbers.

increase unit cost. and support so factions don't expand as fast.

create new unit for all factions that are specificaly there kings-prince

not just same unit as regular solidary. give them one morale apon training.
aand 3 years to create.. i.e greeks have a hoplite specifacly for there kings pricne along with all factions..
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mess with the nations offices to give minmal 3-4 acum so you can put the tital to the right officer incharge of that nation.. so you can get the best money/income production by the use of strategy.....

your farm production rate is too much even without the title/office

lowering income and having the titles increase income is better balance.. and forces players to save certain units for better income..

see if you can't mess with the ship production's and bring all the ships from the orignal hellic total war.

no ships form MTW -viking ships weren't used tell after the dark ages/middle roman empire.....

some of the building produciton pics apon trainin only have a black box for pic..

if i think of any more i'll let you know im gonan try playing the greek nation next... and give oyu feed back...

[Antalis::]

Hi:

I remember, that making HTW was an exciting and wonderful time. I have tried your mod and I like it. Its nice to see that our work is alife in your mod: Like units, landscapes.


I wish you good luck with your mod.

[macsen rufus]

Hi Antalis - thanks for that

HTW was the first mod I ever tried and at the time it blew my socks off, as well as giving me the impetus to have a go at some modding myself. I still think the HTW maps are the best I've seen for MTW, by the way. Are you still in touch with Komninos? I've tried to PM him, but guess he doesn't visit any more. Anyway, it's great fun setting the HTW BA warriors loose on a larger scene

@Bonfire - thanks for the ideas - some of the factors I've already addressed, so the next version is better on the economy side already, and also with some more factions there are fewer rebel provinces to worry about (and you'll also find it a bit harder to take Britain with the Prytani in place, forcing the Germanics to tackle their continental rivals sooner...). The farming has been reduced, and I have a couple of trade tweaks to do as well (making tin more valuable than copper, for one). Some of the factions do find the cash pretty tight now, so have to concentrate on development rather than armies in the early game. Actually I usually play on hard or expert, so the starting cash is lower as well - perhaps I'll reduce that, force some choices of priority to be made early on.

The "MTW" ships do need some new graphics and descriptions, but I will keep the choices limited, as most of the HTW types are too "futuristic" for the era. I'm looking for something usable like the Ulu Burun or Cape Gelidonya wreck types. Also evidence points to Nordic ships being very similar to the Mycenaean ones, but I'm still researching that one.

As for the titles, there's not a lot of change from the XL defaults yet, I've changed a few, but mostly names rather than the stats - there's more to do, as I still have things like "Censor of Genoa" in there . The barbarians get quite a good "office" from the pagan sacrifical shrine, which makes it well worth giving to the governor of the best province

And yes, the little black squares on the building completed parchments. I haven't found where they live yet, so all the new buildings get the little black square until I do. I usually play with the "non-critical messages" turned off, so I don't normally see these (I find it really irritating if a parchment pops up for every single building completed in that year, not to mention the sound effect ) I shall keep looking for these and once they're found, I can add the new ones in there!

[Antalis::]

Hi Antalis - thanks for that

I still think the HTW maps are the best I've seen for MTW, by the way. Are you still in touch with Komninos? I've tried to PM him, but guess he doesn't visit any more. Anyway, it's great fun setting the HTW BA warriors loose on a larger scene

Thank you.


No, sorry. Its quite a long time ago since I was in contact with komninos.



Antalis

[Bonfire]

the pics of building are in campmap/reveiwpannel

there is tga. and there diffrent folders for the diffrent relgion/culture.

as for your reply awsome but seriosuly i beg ya get workin on the proncie title so the person you assign it too gets more Acum so you don't disband or use that guy in war.

also in the start money of the campagin have easy 4k then 3k then 2k then 1k.

[macsen rufus]

Hi Bonfire

The campmap/reviewpanel graphics are for the training/building panel. These are all in place, likewise the campmap infopics are also all in place. I will keep looking for the others .....

I don't want to go overboard on province titles - that was one area in HTW I wasn't totally happy with, as by the time you'd given out the titles, all your governers had nine feathers straight away and the economy was booming. I want more of a struggle in Ancient. You shouldn't be able to start with anything "maxed out" IMHO. So I might do some selective improvements for titles, and/or add more offices (I'm going to have "Chariot master" office for the eastern kingdoms, at least).

I will turn down the starting cash, the one exception being the Sea Peoples, as they have quite a few ships they can get bankrupted too easily for the AI to use them properly, but it's a good faction for the player, who can role play a bit better I think maybe the eastern kingdoms should have a slightly bigger pot to start with as well.

Right, I better get on and do some work now, that's the propblem with only having internet access at work

[macsen rufus]

Yay! I found the missing infopics, they are in campmap/infopics/coloured folder, so now there are a lot fewer little black squares, but I still have a few more to do. I also overhauled the frontend, so Ancient:TW now has it's own splash screen, and a few other bits tweaked to add to the atmosphere.

Added miners now, for undermining those walls, trainable -- surprisingly enough -- only at mines, with a valour bonus from a mine complex (and also in Algarve). This should keep their numbers low as they won't be available everywhere, and most factions will have some sort of mine somewhere in their homeland (though not all of them).

In the process of testing the miners I launched another Alisyan campaign (cos they start the game with a mine already in place), and I had a terrible time with acumen - I'd trained over 30 units, and got to my second king before I had a single unit with 4 feathers (my usual minimum for governors). I don't think I've ever seen such a dimwitted faction before

[Bonfire]

rofl.

yeah the one faction i just don't like playing period is the danes there acum problem is the worst. i went through 20 units before i got acum 3. maybe it was just my bad luck but anyways.

[macsen rufus]

Dimwits they may be, but my Alisyans have just trashed the Egyptian empire. Nothing personal, it's just that they kept sinking our ships, and they had a nice big castle for my miners to practice on I spent quite a while tweaking them, and I think the next thing is to reduce the unit size a bit, or their "ammo", just to make it a bit more touch and go as to whether they can succeed and give the defenders more of a chance. I've been trying to make their operation "unsafe" (ie like an exploding gun) but it doesn't seem to work if there is no model with the unit - and if there was a model they wouldn't be able to move, so it looks like a busted flush. I had plans to relabel the "Your gun has exploded" message to "Your tunnel has collapsed". The other alternative is to try making a model like the one used in RTW assaults and increase the range of the miners (so they can be deployed), but that would probably be a bit naff, especially with some of the new maps and double-walled castles.

[Bonfire]

so your still workin on the next version. lets hope this time its in a single install.

try to have it include all the xl working too a full beta version so one doesn't need to install xl or the xl patch.

your install will include it already.

[western]

Hey Bonfire, Macsen isn't on a wage for doing this. How about we thank the man for not keeping this to himself? And if he wants to focus effort on the creative side, moving a few files to install isn't so hard.

But like you, I'm itching to see what is in the next release. Hope it's all going smoothly

[Bonfire]

western he knows full well that im gratefull for his hard work. after all it is his mod.

but if thanks are in order alright.

hascun your the shit. seriosuly if i wasn't going to jail possibly on the 25th i would go to your house with stripers and beer. seriosuly.

(your welcome for the semi sarcastic praising)