Htw Spin-off Mod - Ancient: TW

[Bonfire]

hey mascen im here to inform you that i could possible be in jail for 2-3 mths for probathion violation and that im to apear in court tommorrow may 25th and if i don't come back here tommorrow evening to reply that i won't be back for 2-3 mths i had fun with your mod and i was looking forward to your next reaslse but i geus i will miss it. later buddy .

[macsen rufus]

Hi all - sorry no updates for a while - been catching up on some research and fielding interruptions from real-life. (and I admit I took a little excursion into a Lithuanian XL campaign for light relief ) Ok Bonfire, hope to see you back sooner rather than later, anyway, so keep safe .

I'll be getting on the update/new install next, I'm about at a point where that makes sense to do. (Gotta keep drip-feeding the fanbase, after all ) then I'll move on to doing the Late Era and make a few more tweaks. Which would take us on to Beta 3. Anyway, it'll be worth the wait and I hope you like the front-end changes, the whole look is a lot more "bronzey" now

More next week

[axel]

Hi Macsen
ill be waithing
Bonfire good luck i know the feeling

[Bonfire]

im a free man as of 11 am may 25th im not on probation anymore

for my probation violation all i have left is 3 days alternative jail time and my fine as for that i can drink and party woohoo...

[western]

Hi Macsen
You know you had that business with the Ligurians - a unit wouldn't work for them that worked for everyone else? I've got the same issue on Fall of Rome - SarmatianCav crash the Mod for the Romans faction only. Byzantines fine, everyone else fine, fight battle as the Romans - crash. Did you have/find any ideas as to what makes this happen for just one faction??

[Inuyasha12]

Awesome, just awesome. I've always wanted to play an ancient world mod, Hellenic was great, but it was on a way too small a scale, this is perfect. Downloading your mod right now, i'll tell you how it goes. I never thought that i would play MTW again after Rome, but after checking the mtw boards again, i don't know why really, i found your thread and couldn't wait to try out this mod.
Anyways, thanks for your excellent work on this.

[macsen rufus]

Morning all - I now have a patch and a version 2 install together, and I should be able to get them posted up tomorrow. I just have a little bit more testing to do to make sure everything is in there! I was up til 1am last night pinning down a CTD, so didn't have time to burn the CD before getting to work today (yes, working on a Bank Holiday sucks, so my revenge is more time on the Org )

Most of it worked fine, but the Egyptian campaign crashed before opening, and .matteosartori. crashed from the camp map, but I could play a few years no problems away from the south-east of the map. Eventually, playing with spies and ships etc, I worked out it was when Libyan territory was in view. Then it twigged I had missed out the Libyan castle flag.... put that back in and no more CTDs Then I went to bed So I'm 99% sure the patch and version 2 installs are now complete, but should be 100% tonight.

Just to be sure: the patch (approx 15Mb uncompressed) will upgrade the last release to version 2, but I will also release a new full install v2 which will do the whole job from scratch (ie a clean install of XL).

@Western, no I didn't get to the bottom of the Ligurian chariot problem, in the end I just went for the work-around, used a different animation and made a new unit for them. So basically the problem is not solved (one of my wise old bosses once told me that a problem is never solved until its cause is known, and those words have stuck with me for years since ) I'm fairly sure it has something to do with flags, and the bug relating to MTW flags showing up in the animation frame, but how, why, where, I really don't know!

And Bonfire, good to see you back, you must have said something right and been nice to the man

And welcome Inuyasha, thanks for the kind words, hope you enjoy the mod! Look forward to your feedback.

So fingers crossed, links to the new release tomorrow

[axel]

Yihaaaaa gg mate ill downloading tomorow

[Bonfire]

from 8 am to 4 in the afternoon i will be doing community service from tuesday to thursday thne on friday will be my full time off but i need that day to prepare further for tommorrow saturday im having a bonfire in celebreation of my conquering of the government....

so sunday is lookin like i will have time to play it i do know that i will Dl the version 2 tommorrow after i get back from community service.

great job mascun and i will hand you a beer drink up and relax you deserve it.

cheers

[macsen rufus]

The Patch is Ready!

Okay folks, get your modems warmed up! The patch is now ready, to convert your Ancient TW beta 1 into Ancient TW beta 2.

Get it here (10Mb)

Unfortunately there is NOT a complete new install at present as the zip file was too big for my file server with all the new stuff in it, so you will have to patch the original install for now, until I either take some (spare) stuff out or get a paid fileserver account for larger files.

Here's the contents of the readme file:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

ANCIENT TW beta 1.0 -- PATCH 1 installation notes
==================================================

Intro: after playing the Bronze Age scenario in Hellenic TW I long harboured yearnings to make a "whole Europe" Bronze Age scenario, using the units from HTW. Here it is, at least in beta form.

Installation:

THIS PATCH WILL UPGRADE THE ANCIRNT BETA ver 1 to ver 2. IT IS NOT A FULL INSTALL. You must first have Ancient beta 1 installed.

The patch is NOT save-game safe, so all your old Ancient TW campaigns will no longer work. If you want to finish them, make a second copy of your entire Ancient TW folder, and patch the copy.

In the copy of Ancient that you wish to patch, first delete all save games (.cpg files), all existing unit_prod and build_prod files (in the main Ancient TW folder) and all startpos files in campmap/startpos. This is to save confusing the game and player alike!

Unzip the patch into a new folder then select all, and copy directly into your Ancient TW folder (if in doubt, you should be able to see the TW .exe file when you "paste" the files). When prompted about replacing files, say "Yes to all". That's all there is to it!

What You Get:
=============

This patch adds a new era ("The Catastrophe") beginning in 1200BC, and introduces a few new factions: The Sea Peoples, Ugarit, the Prytani (ie the Wessex-Brittany Culture), the Ligurians and Cimmerians, plus a dozen or so new units.

Also there are a few front-end changes to make the overall appearance more "bronzey", the economy has been tweaked a bit, and a few changes have been made to ships.



As a work in progress, there are additions to be made to unit rosters, extra factions to include, and later eras to develop. Any ideas and feedback gladly welcomed at the Org.

CREDIT where it's due: VikingHorde for making the map this mod goes on to, the Hellenic TW team for all the units and battle maps that have been recycled, Cegorach for some neat ideas nicked from PMTW, and all the support, research and encouragement from Axel, Dimitrios the Samian, Pericles and Western.



Macsen Rufus
29/05/07

[western]

Hi Macsen

The good news - patch dowloaded and installed fine. Looks great.
The bad news - I've had 2 CTDs on the Catastrophe, each a different year but within 10 turns of starting, one as Ugarit and one as Assyria. No clues offered - occurred in normal campaign play at end year, not on transition to battle. Most frequent cause I have encountered in the past is errors concerning borders/neighbours, but since you have re-used the XL map, it shouldn't be that. I have made no changes at all to the download, so it shouldn't be me either!

I wait to see if others report the same problems - and I will keep on playing to see if any clues emerge.

From what I've seen up to now, the look and play of the Mod seem really good. I want this CTD dead!!

[axel]

Hi mate
i am glad the patch is reddy but again i got the same problem downloading like the first time lol ill try to download tomorow mate

[macsen rufus]

@Western - thanks for that - oops! Don't know where that might be, then.

I'm currently doing a Sea Peoples campaign in my Install 2 version, and have just managed to wipe out Ugarit, and went to bed when the Assyrians attacked, as I didn't have time to fight the battle last night. So we're in the same region. I'll see if anything crops up.

Can you do a quick test for me, and .matteosartori. the campmap? I suspect it might be because you are seeing something for the first time after the 10yrs or so - if so the reveal should cause a crash too. Unfortunately, if it crashes you can't tell what it is you've just seen . It will probably relate to a faction piece or a region at a guess. Any chance you recall what you were building and training at the time? And maybe try sending an emissary on a tour of your neighbours' provinces, see if he causes it to crash.

Meanwhile I shall do a fresh install from the patch alone (I used my "full" v2 install that is too big to get online, so it's possible there's a difference in some file or another.... )

[western]

Macsen

Here's a quick update. Matteosartori doesn't crash it. I discovered one small bug - no infopic for Hittite spearmen. I corrected that and had one crash subsequent at 211, when as Ugarit I was sitting at home churning out tower spearmen and building stables I think - don't think either of those caused the crash because I've done the same lots of times without ill effects.

The good news is that still as Ugarit, I've played twice to 230 without a crash. Also once as Egypt. No faction seems to have disappeared early in those games, which might have led one to suspect they were the problem faction if they had.

So it's a bit of a puzzle. 3 crashes in 6 games, none after 211. One small bug found, but that can't be the culprit. Investigation continues

[macsen rufus]

I think I may have the answer for your CTD, Western. I've just taken a quick look at the patch I re-downloaded, and there are a couple of bits missing for Hittite spearmen. So I will need to re-upload those bits in a new patch tomorrow, but for now I suggest you try the following:

* campmap/Info_Pics/Units: copy/rename "spearmen.bif" --> "Hit_spear.bif"
* Battle/UnitIcons: copy/rename "spearmen.lbm" --> "Hit_spear.lbm"

I reckon that should fix it. But to confirm that, find a Hittite spear unit you can see (Hittites have them as starting garrisons) and right-click on it. This should cause a CTD as the info_pic is missing. And of course if you try to go to battle against any Hittite spears, that will also crash. Did you get into battle with the Hittites for any of the crashes?

EDIT: aha, I see we were writing posts at the same time! Hope you're enjoying Ugarit, it's one of my favourite factions at the moment

[western]

Hi Macsen

It's a great fun Mod, well balanced and demanding - but I'm still getting crashes despite fixing the Hit_spear thing. I've had 3 more as Ugarit - 205, 207 and 224. If you reload, they will repeat, so it isn't just a random thing. All have occurred when the pieces are sliding round the map at end turn. But like I said before, if this is unchanged XL map, it shouldn't be a neighbours/borders error. Any ideas?? It occurs even when matteosartori isn't on, so doesn't that mean it is localised to the factions you can see, which are basically just the middle east ones? Could it have anything to do with emissary movement, which goes further afield?

[axel]

hi mate
i cant download the patch it only give s me a empty file 7.4 kb ?? help me

[macsen rufus]

I'm now uploading a fresh copy of the patch with the Hittite spearmen corrections. Same file name so should still work from the original link.

@Western, yeah, I managed to recreate your CTD as well. I tried yet another new install (you don't really want to know how many copies of MTW/VI/XL/Mods there are on my hard-drive ) and copied in the original ancient install, plus the patch (as corrected above) and launched a Ugarit campaign. Unlike many people I always do a quicksave at the end of every year, it's become an autoamtic series of keystrokes for me (ctrl-S, space, enter....)

In about year 205 I had a CTD, same as you, whilst the pieces were moving around. All I could "see" at this point was just what the Ugarit watch-towers revealed. I'm pretty sure that the last thing that happened before I was interrupted by my wallpaper was a rebel stack from Syria started moving towards me, as though they were about to invade. Now rebel attacks are rare as hen's teeth, so I could be wrong, it was just an impression of movement at a part of the screen I wasn't quite looking at..... By this point I had turned .matteosartori. on and off, so it was nothing "permanent" on the campmap causing it. Generally, on the campmap, if you can't see it, it can't hurt you

When I reloaded and tried again (without changing anything), it worked okay and the game continued. But the rebel stack did not move - but that is often the case, a quick-save will delay AI invasions in some instances. Since then I've taken Syria (fighting the very army that would have invaded, if it had continued, so I don't think it was the army which caused it after all) and I've now gone past 211 (no thanks to the Alisyans ) and so far no further crashes. I strongly suspect Syria is at the root of the regional instability, and like you I'm thinking along the lines of agents (I'll try to refrain from backroomish comments, here ).

I can't help wondering if I made any changes to agents since the first install, but really don't recall anything. Except required buildings for emissaries, hmmmmmm..............

I shall have another look tonight, anyway.


@Axel -- maybe mydatabus.com just doesn't like you I think last time it was down to bandwidth, so it could be again, as I see there's been a bit of activity overnight (more complete installs been downloaded as well as a few patches). We're now on to a new day's bandwidth "ration" so give it another go.

EDIT: yes, I've just checked my email and there is a bandwidth limit warning in there....

[western]

Hi Macsen

While poking around, I spotted one thing (sadly not crash related). GR_Dendra don't have a weapon. I copied Myc_Chariot weapon and that seemed to work fine.

Good luck with the CTD. I'll keep snooping around too.

Sea peoples seem nicely aggressive, so you obviously got on top of that issue.

[macsen rufus]

GR_Dendra don't have a weapon.

I think that's something I changed in my working copy but forgot to carry across to the update....

... or maybe the power of the epetis lies in the way the warriors wave their arms around at the enemy

Glad the Sea Peoples are putting up bit of a fight - now they have the "Viking" slot they have bucked up their ideas a bit, and I also gave them discounts on quite a few unit types. True to form they do tend to raze provinces to the ground once they invade.

[axel]

Hi mate
still cant get it

[macsen rufus]

@Axel -- I'm mystified - it does look like it's just you, once again It has been downloading for others okay. So, do you have any pop-up blockers, download managers, or an unusual internet browser?

All I can suggest for now is keep trying, like last time. (I've just remade the link as the "new" patch hadn't replaced the "old" patch properly, so anyone who tried to get the Hittite spear corrections will need to try again, sorry folks...)

@ Western: I'm getting more confused by this CTD - I had one in the Assyrian campaign, too, so actually made a savegame for the previous turn, then have been switching factions etc to test it from different angles. Unfortunately I can't switch across to Ugarit as the FN number is too high for -ian to work, but found that it crashes with the Cimmerians, Assyrians, and SOMETIMES the Hittites, but is fine for all other factions. Which seems like it might take the blame away from Syria and drop it on the Hittites instead (obviously when I switch factions they don't do what the AI was going to do that move....)

What really throws me though, is that carrying the savegame across to my development copy ALSO results in a CTD. And I've never had a CTD from any campaign started in that copy of the mod.... I haven't finished testing all the factions around the CTD in the development copy, so not 100% sure yet.

More later, must go do some work

EDIT: I've put the download links in a sticky so you don't have to trawl the whole thread to find them now

[axel]

Hi mate
I still cant download i tryed right click and save i even put off my pop up killer and norton ??? dont know why this happens i never did have problems downloading anything at all mate ill keep trying

[macsen rufus]

Hi Axel -- could still be bandwidth - there's been a surprising surge in activity . But I also tried from the links in the new thread - right-click/save-as doesn't work - it will just give you a page from the mydatabus.com site, which is about 8kB. You need to use the left-click. I guess you've probably already tried this, though.

I'm still trying to pin down the cause of the CTDs, and it's very difficult finding any differences in the two installs I have. There are a quite a few 'original' files and folders which I've deleted from my development copy that still remain from a clean install, though, so I wonder if there may be some sort of clash arising.

I don't think this is the cause, but in my new install, I have just deleted the campmap/reviewpanel/agents/Pagan folder as the pagan factions were getting the XL graphics for agents. Since then I've gone nearly 50 years as Ugarit without a hint of a CTD - but this is probably pure coincidence of course!

[western]

Hi Macsen

Here's something that may narrow your search a bit. I had one crash after receiving message that "sea peoples have decided that they cannot win the battle and are retreating". That made me think could be unitprod related (since moves were completed and it was possibly the effort to muster an army of rebels that was causing crash). Tried deleting the "rebelling troop mixes" entries for the post-patch units. Still got crashes. So then I tried importing the unitprod file from the pre-patch version. Since then 4 Catastrophe campaigns (3 Ugarit, 1 Assyria) and no crashes.

If crashes have stopped, therefore seems to be related to having a unitprod file without post-patch units. I don't understand how - previously crashes seemed to occur most often after an Egyptian stack moved into rebel territory, but I'm not sure either that there is a rebel connection or how that would work

Could be that I'm counting chickens too soon - I'll let you know. But I thought I'd give you these clues at least in the hope that they are helpful.

[macsen rufus]

Hi Western,

That's interesting - though I must admit I don't see how you can use the old unitprod without it crashing right out, as there'll be quite a few units in the startpos that are from the latest unitprod (Sea Peoples start with Lukka Pirates, for example), so I guess you've removed these units from the startpos

IIRC all the new units are: Hittite spears, Nakhtu-aa heavy inf (+ jav throwing equivalent), Lukka Pirates, Ahhiyawan foot, miners, tribal hunters, Cimmerian spears, Cimmerian archers, Cimmerian warband, Ligurian chariots and Libyan spears.

I'll certainly have a close look at the "rebel troop mix" columns as well, as you probably guess a lot are just cut and pasted, so maybe the figures don't all add up.... and it's not something I've really spent much time on so far.

Anyway, it all helps to narrow it down The other thing that seems to be a constant in the crashes seems to be having the area around Cilicia/Ugarit visible, and I don't think I've seen any after the rebel provinces have all be taken by factions, either.

Another thing that confuses me is that the development copy doesn't crash at all (except when I copied a game over from the patched install). Obviously this means it has to be some element which goes into the savegame data, as well. I'd have thought by now we'd have enough patterns to find where they overlap, but they all seem to be pointing in different directions!

The one BIG difference between my dev and re-installed copies is that I cleaned out a lot of "old stuff" from the dev copy (like the XL pagan shaman bits etc). Which means the solution might be to get an installer package which can do some deletions before the install. For the life of me I can't remember which package HTW uses, that worked well, and I think it was the same one Cegorach used for PMTW. I shall try and get hold of it and maybe that would help us get a cleaner install done (and maybe even get the full package down below 250Mb again ) Hmmmmmmmm...

Anyway, thanks for the insights, and keep it coming

[axel]

Hi mate
still cant download it yet really dont know wot the problem is??? it downloads everything else on total war forum
is it possible for you to mail it to me??? please

[macsen rufus]

Hi Axel - all I can suggest is keep trying, there's still lots of activity - my daily bandwidth has been exceeded every day since the patch went up. I don't think I can send 10Mb emails, unfortunately, but if you PM me your address I'll give it a go, or maybe do it as a few smaller ones.

Regarding the CTDs, I have done yet another new install, this time removing LOADS of old MTW and XL files first (I only found one that I had to put back in ). In this latest version I've managed 71 years of the Ugarit campaign without a single CTD. So fingers crossed.... I shall continue testing this and post up a list of files to be removed, so if nothing else works, a fresh install should do the trick.

EDIT:

I've added the list of files to be removed into the sticky with the download links. I've now played over 100years of the Ugarit campaign without crashes on this install, so it looks like it might be stable at last. I'm not 100% sure WHY this has worked (if it really has!) but maybe it's to do with the XL pagan pieces/infopics/reviewpanel graphics???

I'll have a go with Assyria as well, and if that holds up too, I'll carry on with more "creative" stuff (more units, titles, buildings etc)

[macsen rufus]

Another quick update: since the re-install by the new method (see the sticky) I've also played 50yrs of Assyria without CTD, and about 40 of Thrace. So I'd definitely suggest everyone does a re-install, and compare notes from that.

Meanwhile I'm progressing with a few new bits again

- rebels have "regional" names now ("Brian of Aramaea" just looked WRONG outside a Monty Python context )
- some changes to titles/offices to increase variety
- minor startpos changes so factions don't have start units they can't retrain (come in, Hittite spearmen of Ugarit, your time is up )

Forthcoming changes:
- some changes the the mineral distribution to take account of real Bronze Age mining centres
- Assyrian army will get some reforms with units to be dvided between "sab sharri" (militia/conscript level), "kisir sharuti" (standing army) and "qurubti sa shepe" (royal bodyguard/elite units), with varying homelands
- more faction-specific buildings to allow "foreign" troops away from homelands (but not too many...)
- more region-specific units to add some incentive to take certain provinces (Kaskan mountaineers, Chaldean skirmishers, Carpathian swordsmen (to replace current Tribal Swords province bonus), Steppe Chariots etc etc). I still want more variety in mainland Europe, as the pagan factions still seem pretty similar.
- I'm about ready to start on the Late Era (roughly corresponds to Greek Geometric period, so the Greeks will get some interesting changes in unit roster) which should see some quite large changes on the campmap starting positions, with new factions, changed "homelands" etc.

Finally, Axel has reported a CTD from a right-click on Assyrian archers. Has anyone else had a similar problem?

[macsen rufus]

I've started on the Late scenario now, but there'll be quite a bit to do, so maybe something to show for it in a week or two. I'm importing more HTW units, and building new factions now.

Meanwhile I've changed the unit roster for the Illyrians, added a "Nordic halberdier" for the Germanics (based on a Bronze Age hoard - the weapon isn't much like the halberds we all know and love from later eras, but that's what the archaeologists call it anyway ), Carpathian swordsmen kick some butt, Chaldean skirmishers are in, the Etruscans have been beefed up, and a few changes have been made to homelands and levels of development. A few more province names have been changed to something less modern....

I've also found the source of the installer used by so many other mods, so should be a smaller download and a simpler install in the future.

More news as it comes in....