Htw Spin-off Mod - Ancient: TW

**axel** · 03-09-2007, 21:12

really nice mate really nice

**dimitrios the samian** · 03-10-2007, 03:24

Brilliant stuff Macsen !! Winter will soon be coming here down under and when it sets in I'll look forward to helping you out on this one both in research & pic & portrait hunting & maybe even more ... ,, I just feel those battles in the sand will be fantastic without trees and shrubs in the way ,, This Bronze Age mod will be a first !! Perhaps eventually we can add Sumeria , Babylon & others for a "Dawn of Civilsation" add on campaign ? !! ,, Anyway my hard drive double very very soon so as soon as MTW + Hellenic is reloaded I'lll be in touch so you make sure I have all your little additions & extra's added to it ,, cheers for now ,, DTS ...
Axel ,, If I can't get to download FOR 3.1 before it disappears may I get a copy from you ? cheers 2u2

**cegorach** · 03-10-2007, 11:35

Good work !

I can give you some (limited) help with the mod. There are many possibilities to explote with the mod, some are VERY easy to implement e.g. mounted infantry if you need it.

Maybe you should create a new thread right here within this sub-forum to develop the mod.

Some people could help you with the research which would be very useful in this modding project. Currently only some people notice the idea...

**macsen rufus** · 03-10-2007, 12:24

Hi Cegorach - thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that some of your ideas from PMTW have already helped me!

So far most of the "hard work" that's gone into this has been second-hand - VikingHorde's map, and the HTW team's units, so I can't claim a lot of credit, I'm just mixing up the toys in my toybox so they can play together

You're probably right about a new thread though -- but that would make it sort of "official", and I don't really want to make too many promises at this stage....

@DTS: I quite like the idea of a Mid-East focus, but that will require a whole new camp map. I'll keep looking to see if that MidEast map ever made it to the light of day. Can't remember where I saw it though....

And of course, the other project is continuing to get HTW-BA straightened out. One day I'll get to play the PM English Civil War scenario....

**dimitrios the samian** · 03-10-2007, 13:10

Hello Cegorach & thanks for the encouragment >> Macsen , I'm fairly certain the map you saw was from the defunkt Diadochi mod being made ,, It was focused in that area of Persia at the time of Alexanders death ,, Perhaps there is some way of contacting this person who was creating this mod & even take all his peices to put into a new playbox !! ... Anyway guys should it be necessary Im sure we could easily make a map of Mesopotamia ... So Macsen keep chipping away on your Bronze Age project and lets see how it all develops ,, In the meantime I'll check out the library to see how maps are made

,, cheers for now ,, DTS

**cegorach** · 03-10-2007, 14:30

Originally Posted by macsen rufus

Hi Cegorach - thanks for the kind words. I have to admit that some of your ideas from PMTW have already helped me!

So far most of the "hard work" that's gone into this has been second-hand - VikingHorde's map, and the HTW team's units, so I can't claim a lot of credit, I'm just mixing up the toys in my toybox so they can play together

True, but it is exactly what I did some time ago lacking skills in drawing, with no support to think about - at least you don't need to do much to have almost perfect collection of animations for the mod - it made me want to see them personally to determine the possibilities.

I am interested in details how will you handle game unit vs. unit balance.

For example some time ago I wondered how to handle things like chariots in a mod requiring them ( I toyed with the idea of RTW on MTW VI mod - simila to the one already in progress).

Here are my thoughts.

Heavy chariot designed to break enemy line should :

1. Lose missile weaponry because the AI can't use it prperly, but not completelly - the 'dismounting' allows adding optional unit of heavy chariots WITH missile weaponry, but because it will be only available by 'dismounting' the recruitable heavy chariots the AI will not use them (because it doesn't dismount units before a battle anyway) and a human player will still be given this option.
The minor flaw is that this way the chariot crew will not dismount into anything else, but from historical point of wiev it didn't happen if I am not wrong.

2. Heavy chariots can be coded as INFANTRY
- it has numerous advantages.
One - this way it ignores anti-cavalry bonuses.
Two - it still can be dismounted and the existence of the steed doesn't matter too - infantry can have mounts as I found out.
Three - the existence of a steed STILL makes it terrible when fighting in forested areas.

3. It needs to get pavise shield - only this way they will not die too quickly from enemy missile fire. Pavise bonus can be very high making the target very hard to kill with ranged weaponry and unlike armour doesn't cause fatigue.
Of course they shouldn't be bullet proof, but it is a matter fo testing.
Just check my WagionInfantry in PMTW if you need something really hard to kill.

4. Fatigue can be controlled by the weight of armour. This way fast chariots with high stamina can get light armour (even none) with protection offered by well-balanced pavise shield.
Heavy chariots quite differently - heavy armour and weaker pavise keep it well protected from missiles, but faster to tire.

5. Defence offers protection not armour so chariots should be given decent defence at the expense of their armour.

6. FEAR is the most potent weaponry in the game ! Thanks to the incredibly flexible system of fear used by the MTW engine it is easy to determine which units fear what which is ESSENTIAL for the chariots to work properly.
Basically heavy chariots should cause fear in infantry except the ones which are designed to hunt them ( e.g. chariot runners).
Chariot hunters can not only be invulnerable to such terror, but cause fear in chariot units...
Because fear adds +2 to attack and lowers target's attack by 4 at the same time it is damn useful and allows creation of units designed to stop perticular enemies.

The AI also seems to use the fearsome units as designed which is even better.

Well... you might already know this all, but I had this idea - hopefully you might find something useful here.

You're probably right about a new thread though -- but that would make it sort of "official", and I don't really want to make too many promises at this stage....

The mod in general seems to be rather easy to produce - the main problem is research unless you have it done already.
The reduction of techtrees, many cuts here and there will shorten the time required to make it work too.
From my experience I can say that the research takes the largest part of work.

And of course, the other project is continuing to get HTW-BA straightened out. One day I'll get to play the PM English Civil War scenario....

There will be two'English' scenarios - Civil War and Armada Campaign.
The problem is the recent discoveries shattered my earlier plans and made me re-define the whole concept of the PMTW...
Currently I am doing some research to add new options to less attractive factions such as Montenegro - which means more time...
At least I managed to add a couple of new animations I managed to create.

**cegorach** · 03-10-2007, 14:54

After a quick glance at the HTW animations and my Osprey ancient wars books I can say that almost everything which possibly can be used in the mod is already done...

Of courase in case you wanted to add more than the 'vanilla' factions you will need to move some dangerous animations folders to different places (those which cause CTDs when used by additional factions) which still is possible thanks to the fact there are 2 unused custom folders in HTW (those discovered by Barocca which I use in PMTW) it is much easier - besides most of those hoplite infantry has no use anyway.

Good luck !

If you have some specific questions where I can help I will be visiting this forum from time to time so will be able to help I believe.

BTW Are you going to use native names - in Egyptian, Assyrian etc ?

In many cases it is possible because sources do include such.

Regards Cegorach

**dimitrios the samian** · 03-10-2007, 15:46

Cegorach your comments & ideas to Macsen have ignited my interest in this mod !! .. I have just read over half a dozen pages and my appetite is ready .. Macsen Im itching to play this mod ! partial & unfinished (( those screenies look soo nice )) If at all possible would you at some stage be able to send over a copy of Bronze Age with any other files so I can reload it over HTW & begin familiarising myself with it (

) , As files for BA are now unavailable ,, Perhaps also Cegorach would also like the same files ,, I also noted that Pericles showed interest in BA by chiming in with comments on Sea-People ... (( He recently finished re-tweaking Fall Of Rome 3.1)) and maybe he is interested in helping out ? as he currently isn't involved in any Total War modifications .. What do you say Macsen ? When your ready & comfortable would you take the plunge and try a "Sub-forum" thread ?

... It's definately going to get more attention that way ,, As Cegorach said most of the hard-works been done

,, So generating interest leads to more people involved/interested then onto forming a team and perhaps one day soon release a mod as as big & popular as XL & Pike & Musket ,, DTS