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  1. #1
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Apparently this guy's congregation loves him, and feels the need to make sure he drives a Caddy and lives in a big house. But does it not seem kind of, well, slimy to anybody? How do our Christian Orgahs feel about this?

    http://www.thestar.com/News/article/190778

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Cheers, jeers greet pastor

    Mostly poor flock welcome minister living the good life as critics rally outside his church

    Mar 12, 2007 04:30 AM
    Surya Bhattacharya
    Joseph Hall
    Staff Reporters

    Thousands of members of the embattled Prayer Palace congregation cheered on their pastor yesterday as he bragged about his suntan, the support of worshippers and the openness of his administration while one congregant warned, "The devil decided to mess with the wrong church."
    Outside, private security guards, church volunteers and a couple of police cruisers kept a close eye on a small group of demonstrators protesting the lavish lifestyle of senior pastor Paul Melnichuk, his twin sons, who are the church's junior pastors, and the Prayer Palace's dwindling contributions to charity.
    The Prayer Palace and the Melnichuks were the subject of a recent Sunday Star investigation that found the church's three pastors living in multi-million-dollar mansions and enjoying a lavish Florida hideaway while encouraging the largely poor congregation to tithe a percentage of their income.
    At the same time, the Star investigation found, the church reportedly took in some $3 million from its members in 2005, while doling out a minuscule $9,443 to "benevolent and charity" activities.
    But if Melnichuk was aware of the protestors outside, he gave nary a sign to the worshippers who greeted him with enthusiastic cheers and hallelujahs as he made his way to the pulpit during a service at the massive church, which dominates the Highway 400 and Finch Ave. intersection.
    "I've brought a little bit of Florida with me in my suntan," Melnichuk told his congregants, most of whom are black.
    "You can see my white teeth better. ... I want to look so much like my congregation," the 72-year-old evangelical preacher said.
    After the story was published, Star reporters involved received threats and were inundated with emails promising to pray for them.
    Yesterday's service lasted three hours inside a coliseum-style setting, with a gospel choir and testimonials by those whose lives had been changed or "saved" by the church.
    Michigan-based minister Byron Hayes preached a guest sermon as pictures of swaying congregation members flashed on giant TV screens alongside psalms from the Bible and, occasionally, the words "HE LIVES!!!"
    "The devil decided to mess with the wrong church," proclaimed one member from the stage. "It's all right, it's all right, though, because it means we are going to a higher level.
    "We're still here and we will always be here. So keep praying," said the young man, a member of the church's youth group who introduced himself as "Owen."
    "I was told to come up here and give a testimony of how the church has changed me," said the youth, one of many who offered their stories of support to congregants before Melnichuk made his appearance.
    But, as members inside raised their hands and swayed to cries of "Hallelujah!" and "Amen!" the security guards and church volunteers – distinct in their mustard yellow jackets – kept constant watch on the boisterous protest outside the church's main gates, where a group of about 25 condemned the Melnichuks' opulent lifestyle, and urged congregants to demand more accountability for their tithed offerings.
    "We want to bring awareness to the fact that people are giving from the community...while the ministers from the church are living extravagant and luxurious lifestyles," said Robbie Robinson, a protest organizer.
    "We're saying that if $3 million is being taken out of the community, some of that money should be given back to the community."
    Many of the protestors, all of whom were black, said they were incensed that the Melnichuks were urging their largely poor congregation to tithe generously while living in gated mansions costing millions and driving luxury cars.
    The Prayer Palace's record of decreasing involvement in good works and community improvements was also cited by the demonstrators, who circled as officers in two parked police cruisers maintained a watch nearby.
    The protestors shouted to passing congregants that they were being exploited by phoney preachers, whose main interest was lining their own pockets.
    Many were also angry that the bulk of the church's worshippers were black, while the family leading them was white.
    Robinson, who works two jobs to support his family, objected to the Prayer Palace's focus on donations.
    "There are other churches in the community with black ministers who don't (demand) that kind of money from their congregation. These are three white ministers, a father and two sons, who live in multi-million dollar homes," Robinson said.
    Among the protestors were several who decried what they perceived as exploitative conduct of the church against its black members.
    "Money should be invested within the black community," said protestor Jane Reid, pointedly observing that "after all, 90 per cent of the people who attend the church are black."
    But the words of protest didn't make it inside the sanctuary, where Melnichuk encouraged worshippers to stand up and take a good look at the news reporters who may have infiltrated the congregation.
    Brushing off the media attention, Melnichuk told his cheering worshippers that tithes in the wake of the Star's investigative report have actually increased by 10 per cent.
    After the story was published March 4, he said, "our board of directors said the pastor will be back and will make a statement."
    After pausing to welcome the media yesterday, Melnichuk added: "The statement is this ... the board of directors met and discussed (Saturday), with about 400-500 key leaders of this church ... and a solicitor has been retained."
    As well, Melnichuk said, a "strategic communications solutions" team has been engaged.
    "Okay, that's it sweetie pie," he said, concluding his remarks with a smile.
    Within moments, a woman in a burnished gold dress and head-dress ran to the stage and slapped a $50 bill onto Melnichuk's forehead.
    The move was met with cheers and, following a request by a church volunteer, congregation members started throwing money at Melnichuk's feet.
    "First the funds go the church," said the beaming pastor. "After that, if the folks want to bless me..."
    The church volunteers, acting on Melnichuk's instructions, divided the growing pile of cash into three collection buckets; the pastor then instructed a young member who is training to be a preacher to dip in and take out "a handful of cash."
    "I hope the media got a picture of me with a $50 bill stuck to my forehead," Melnichuk laughed.

    With files from Andrew Chung, Jessica Leeder and Dale Brazao
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  2. #2
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Do cigarette smokers protest about how the cigarette companies executives live?

    People have things that make them feel good, they often don't bother to look at how their suppliers live.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  3. #3
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    Do cigarette smokers protest about how the cigarette companies executives live?

    People have things that make them feel good, they often don't bother to look at how their suppliers live.
    Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

    Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

    It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

    You don't think that's wrong?
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  4. #4
    Standing Up For Rationality Senior Member Ronin's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

    Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

    It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

    You don't think that's wrong?

    personally I see such things as a tax on stupidity......maybe if people are scammed long enough they will learn something.....

    I know that history is pretty much against any positive gain on this field....but hey....
    "If given the choice to be the shepherd or the sheep... be the wolf"
    -Josh Homme
    "That's the difference between me and the rest of the world! Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!"
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  5. #5

    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Among the duties of a priest/minister/pastor/etc is that they should act as role-models for their congregation. They should live what they preach. "Do as I say, not as I do" should not be applicable to them, since the two should be one and the same.

    That isn't to say that they must all live in abject poverty (although there are monks who choose that as well, giving up all their worldly goods). Religion does not exclude common sense. However, trips to exotic places and lavish lifestyles are NOT what a pastor/priest/minister's life should be. One of the more important traits that they are supposed to cultivate among their flock is humility.
    If the church's coffers are overflowing, that money should be spent on charities, and/or improving the life of the more impoverished parishioners, and/or improving the church's facilities (e.g., maintenance, renovations, etc). That money is NOT for a new car for the priest, or any of that stuff.

    People who live that way are just hypocrites, and do not deserve to be in the positions they occupy.

    My two cents, naturally.
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

  6. #6

    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronin
    personally I see such things as a tax on stupidity......maybe if people are scammed long enough they will learn something.....

    I know that history is pretty much against any positive gain on this field....but hey....
    Well, it's the difference between what things should be like, and what they are like.
    Some folks donate some money to the church in the idea that that money will help the poor, the homeless, the hungry, etc. Charity, you know ?
    If that money goes towards improving the priest's lifestyle, well, then, yeah, we have a problem.
    But that's not because the people are stupid, but because the priest is corrupt and a hypocrite.

    If our government taxes the hell out of us, and it does not use that money in a proper way, are we stupid for continuing to pay taxes ?
    Yes, I know, the two are different, since the ones we pay to the state are mandatory, but then, are we stupid for not overthrowing the government ?
    No, because, in all truth, whichever government you choose, there will STILL be poor management of the money, corruption, bureaucracy, etc. It's just the way things are. They should, and could, be better, but they're not. That doesn't stop us from continuing to try and improve them - that's why we vote new people in power, because we're hoping things WILL improve...
    Therapy helps, but screaming obscenities is cheaper.

  7. #7
    RIP Tosa, my trolling end now Senior Member Devastatin Dave's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Tobacco companies are businesses who's stated goal is to make money for their shareholders. More importantly (especially in the case of tobacco companies), they pay significant amount of tax on their income, so that at least if people are stupid and want to spend their money on tobacco, there is still some benifit to society.

    Churches, on the other hand, are not supposed to be "for profit" businesses. Because of this, they pay no taxes on their income because the idea is that most of the money should make it's way back into the community, minus whatever costs are associated with administration.

    It seems like what this father/sons team has come up with is a way to make $3,000,000 per year tax free.

    You don't think that's wrong?
    I agree with YOU COMPLETELY Goofball. I like to "serve" this guy my nut-basket. Shame on him
    RIP Tosa

  8. #8
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    You don't think that's wrong?
    A fool and his money are soon parted.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  9. #9
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Dunno what that congregation is doing with their head so deep in the sand.

  10. #10
    Coffee farmer extraordinaire Member spmetla's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    If they want to give the guy money to be 'saved' and then threaten those that oppose him then I couldn't give a damn. It's wrong that he's taking advantage of them but there's nothing that I think should be done by anyone except his supporters, and that would be just not giving him money.
    If he starts advocating violence or something then call in the FBI.
    Last edited by spmetla; 03-13-2007 at 08:16.

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    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio
    A fool and his money are soon parted.
    You're missing the point. Since it appears that the majority of the $3,000,000 per year this "church" brings in is being used for the benefit of its "owners" and not for charitable purposes, then this really isn't a church anymore it's a for-profit business. On $3,000,000 of net income, the tax bill would be +/- $600,000, but that is not being paid in this case. So these shysters aren't just parting their foolish congregation (who I really don't care two shiny turds about) from their money, they're parting the rest of the country from the money they owe it.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  12. #12
    zombologist Senior Member doc_bean's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    You're missing the point. Since it appears that the majority of the $3,000,000 per year this "church" brings in is being used for the benefit of its "owners" and not for charitable purposes, then this really isn't a church anymore it's a for-profit business. On $3,000,000 of net income, the tax bill would be +/- $600,000, but that is not being paid in this case. So these shysters aren't just parting their foolish congregation (who I really don't care two shiny turds about) from their money, they're parting the rest of the country from the money they owe it.
    Redefine charitable organization then and don't automatically include churches
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    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball
    Apparently this guy's congregation loves him, and feels the need to make sure he drives a Caddy and lives in a big house. But does it not seem kind of, well, slimy to anybody? How do our Christian Orgahs feel about this?
    He's going to hell? That would be my take on this, probably his parishionars as well, come to think of it, for supporting him.

    Not that I'm saying that's nesseccarily fair. I suppose it depends on how forgiving God really is.

    Personnally if I ever meet this "pastor" I'll punch him, very hard, then dip his head in the font of his own church, just to see if he bursts into flames.

    I bet his church doesn't even have a font. "Prayer Palace" do you suppose they'll change my money for me?
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  14. #14

    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    Of course what he's doing is wrong, but it's all too common these days.

    The other day I was watching TCT late at night which is supposedly a "respectable" Christian network, and they had this creepy crazy-looking guy soliciting people to donate $49 per month to TCT for the next 10 months, because it is 2007 and and 7 is a only number to God, and 7x7 seemingly is an "extra" holy number to God. He went on to say how people who could "do more" should donate above that amount and then went on to say how God told him that someone who pledged right now was being cured (of random diseases he spouted off the top of his head).

    Don't know why stuff like in the OP gets publicity but the scamming of elderly/mentally-challenged victims by TCT does not. Of course TCT airs scamming programs like Benny Hinn which also do this, but I had thought TCT was respectable enough to not do it directly. All such scamming should be illegal.

    It should also be noted that the source of the article, the Toronto Star, is a shady source from which articles about the "wrongs" of Christianity should come. Seeing as that source promotes equally vile and repugnant perversions of Christianity with a "positive spin" when it comes to any other issue relating to the truth of the Bible.
    Last edited by Navaros; 03-13-2007 at 02:28.

  15. #15
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Ye cannot serve God and Mammon..."

    It is, of course, very, terribly wrong - to use the Word of Christ to live rich on the backs of the poor.

    It saddens, even angers me, when I see a 'preacher' promising God's blessings if one gives money to the preacher.

    Crazed Rabbit
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    The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail; its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter; the rain may enter; but the King of England cannot enter – all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement! - William Pitt the Elder

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