The Carthage Challenge thread!

[Xtiaan72]

Who wants to take the Carthage challenge?

House Rules

I'm about to start my first Carthage campaign for 8.1a. In the past I have found it really easy to blow Rome out of the water with them if I just play normally so I was hoping for some suggestions for some house rules to make it more interesting.



1) No attacking outside North Africa for 40 turns. ( To let other factons build up) : This is only 10 years game time. It really shouldn't affect game play that much as you will most likely be attacked before then.

2) No attacking Rome or Epirates unless attacked. ( again to give them a chance to get rolling)

3) No building in cities without general.

4) No recruiting in cities without general.

5) No attacking without general.

6) No Reloads

7) Corsica&Sardinia to simulate defeat in the 1st Punic War. don`t use elite troops against Romanii this time. Cede them to Rome if possible or simply abandon then until attacked.

8) Keep lilibeo to stimulate romani/ epirate attack


9) First invasion of Rome must be overland via Iberia.

10) 1-2 Sacred Band units only allowed of each type. And should a unit get wiped out, wait 10 years before recruiting a new one

11) heavily armoured Carthaginian infantry (Late Liby-Phoenicians for example) should be recruited after facing Roman troops in battle.

12) Move a Barcid character to Iberia after facing Romans. Overland invasion of Rome must be by Barcid Character

[Zim]

Sounds like something I had thought of doing. I had also been thinking of giving away, or causing to rebel all of my settlements outside of North Africa, just so I could start conquering the Carthaginian empire all over again.

That might be a bit extreme, though, considering how many general's upkeep I might be paying for from my few African towns.

[Xtiaan72]

I'm down for whatever man. As long as everyone in the challenge plays by the same rules.

Thought of another one which goes without saying

Definately no reloads....We'll be on the honours system on this one.


What about actually giving those east med colonies to Rome or the Epirates through diplomacy?

The west Med Island I think they should be allowed to keep as a trading and fleet stop on the way to Iberia.

[Zim]

If anyone else interested in the challenge wants to I'd be ok with it.
Otherwise, not a big deal, especially with the early limits on expansion.

Can cities without governors be controlled by the computer, or does "no building" mean not letting the comp build for the town, either?

[Xtiaan72]

It means you have to have a governor in town to build or recruit.

I think it's a good rule to slow you down. But you can still move your guys around and make things happen. Or bribe enemy generals to get more governors. Just another strategy element.

At least it will give people something to do in the beginning. After all you will need to ships to do that. And you will be taking a risk of being killed by pirates.

[Zim]

So settlements without governors can't be set on auto-run?

[Xtiaan72]

Very few people do that anyway cause the computer will spend all your money and not very well. But yes, the idea is that you can't build or recruit in a city unless an actual person is there; forcing players to manage governors like resources and slowing down developement. I think it's a good rule for an ironman
game. You don't think so?

[Numahr]

Dear Xtiaan72,

I have developed a Carthage-specific set of house rules to represent the political system of Carthage that resulted in the metropolis not to support adequately military campaigns because of the oligarchy being more involved in commercial affairs.

How does it work? Every 2 years a great Council is held in the capital. In practice I enter all data about influential FM (influence>0) in a speadsheet, a few data about the international situation, and my spreadsheet gives me:
- the general stance of the Republic, which limits me in % of the military budget, the level of MICs I can build, the size of stacks I can manage, and gives me hint for RP;
- the individual initiative ability of each general for operations against Euleutheroi or factions, in Europe or Africa.

So far it works great, with many fruitful events and political changes. The current situation is that I have a war going on in Southern Italy, led by Hamlcar Barca and a few puno-Iberian and puno-Celt generals, while the anti-Barcid still dominates the debates. As a result my MICs are outdated and my recruitment abilities limited, and Hamalcar has to win heroic victory with his limited light infantry/light cavalry+mercs against all odds. This, in return, gradually increases his influence and the Barcid faction. I should soon be able to overrun the anti-barcids thanks to his charisma and glory...

I am at work now but I will toonight (Paris time) the spreadsheet with all the house rules that come with it, for the case that you may want to give it a try.

[Tiberius Nero]

Try general's camera too, it makes the game a bit more challenging, realistic and fun, to actually be the general.

[Zim]

Very few people do that anyway cause the computer will spend all your money and not very well. But yes, the idea is that you can't build or recruit in a city unless an actual person is there; forcing players to manage governors like resources and slowing down developement. I think it's a good rule for an ironman
game. You don't think so?

Sounds good to me. I just wanted to make sure I understood the rule so I don't inadvertently cheat.

[Intranetusa]

or you can write a program in the script that gives the AI +30,000 denrii when you (the player) become their enemeis and give them +5000 per turn as long as you remain their enemies.

[Xtiaan72]

I'm going to compile some house rules at the top of the page after we have a few more ideas together. Then we can make some modifications to the rules before we begin.


Who wants to take part in the challenge? I'm assuming you do Zim. Anybody else?

I could use some advice on recruitment rules vs time frame.

I'd rather not take it so far as to change the existing scripts for 8.1a. I'm want to see how the game is actually performing vs carthage with some stringent Ironman rules. I want it to be challenging but not too much work so it's fun. That will encourage more participants which will maximize the fun and we can see who the real Carthage "gods" are!

[Favre]

I'll take the challenge!

[Xtiaan72]

Cool. We got three! That's enough to make it interesting. But the more the merrier.

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

So far it works great, with many fruitful events and political changes. The current situation is that I have a war going on in Southern Italy, led by Hamlcar Barca and a few puno-Iberian and puno-Celt generals, while the anti-Barcid still dominates the debates. As a result my MICs are outdated and my recruitment abilities limited, and Hamalcar has to win heroic victory with his limited light infantry/light cavalry+mercs against all odds. This, in return, gradually increases his influence and the Barcid faction. I should soon be able to overrun the anti-barcids thanks to his charisma and glory...

Excellent!! This sounds like an extremely promising tool for exciting campaigns with Carthage. They tend to get a bit dull.

Can you send me the spreadsheet (and instructions too...lol)?

[Ower]

Dear Xtiaan72,

I have developed a Carthage-specific set of house rules to represent the political system of Carthage that resulted in the metropolis not to support adequately military campaigns because of the oligarchy being more involved in commercial affairs.

How does it work? Every 2 years a great Council is held in the capital. In practice I enter all data about influential FM (influence>0) in a speadsheet, a few data about the international situation, and my spreadsheet gives me:
- the general stance of the Republic, which limits me in % of the military budget, the level of MICs I can build, the size of stacks I can manage, and gives me hint for RP;
- the individual initiative ability of each general for operations against Euleutheroi or factions, in Europe or Africa.

So far it works great, with many fruitful events and political changes. The current situation is that I have a war going on in Southern Italy, led by Hamlcar Barca and a few puno-Iberian and puno-Celt generals, while the anti-Barcid still dominates the debates. As a result my MICs are outdated and my recruitment abilities limited, and Hamalcar has to win heroic victory with his limited light infantry/light cavalry+mercs against all odds. This, in return, gradually increases his influence and the Barcid faction. I should soon be able to overrun the anti-barcids thanks to his charisma and glory...

I am at work now but I will toonight (Paris time) the spreadsheet with all the house rules that come with it, for the case that you may want to give it a try.

what rules, and what data do you use, I would like to do similar

[Warlord 11]

Numahr, if you don't mind, I would also like your spreedsheet. It sould like it would make the game much more fun.

[Xtiaan72]

Numahr,


Is it an Excel document?

[Basileus Seleukeia]

I would also like to use your spreadsheet, as it sounds very interesting and promising.

[Favre]

I would also like it if possible, thanks :)

[Zim]

Pretty much got the houserules figured out yet Xtian? I can't wait to get started. Spring break starts this week so I'll have plenty of time to play.

[Favre]

My spring break is in 2 weeks so it may be a while

[Xtiaan72]

I just want some suggestions for some recruiting limitations. We shouldn't be running around fighting Romans with Elite stacks at the beginning of the game.


Does anyone have some suggestion about how to phase recruitment for certain units with actual dates in the game? Not overkill so there is too much to remember. Maybe just some dates to wait for recruitment for certain units?


I want the Carthie challege to rely on Mercenaries too. How about a ratio. Like for every Carthie in an army you need a merc as well. To make it more realistic. Any suggestions on this?

[cyberVIP]

Hi Komrades
Some coins:
1. Let Romanii take Messana&Lilibeo and(?) Corsica&Sardinia (238bc/sell?) to simulate defeat in the 1st Punic War.
don`t use elite troops against Romanii this time
2. Build iberian Empire for Barcid child and win the 2nd Punic (Hannibal) war.
It will be more chellenging if romanii will have Polybian legions earlier then 210bc when Hanno will be conquering nothern italy (through alps undoubtly in 218bc).

[Rilder]

How about having only 5 units in an army to be citizens and the rest have to be mercs+ local troups.

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Hmmm... wonder were Numahr is...
Well, for army limitations I would suggest to use poeni citizen militia only when they were historicaly used: If there was dire need for them. I don't think you should loose to much thougts over limitations, because the only real good medium and heavy units Carthage gets are mercenarys or local troops, whether Iberians, Samnites, Greek hoplites and so on. Well, and Sacred Band Inf. and Cav. is clear: 1, Max 2 units. Perhaps if the empire becomes really big (Spain, Italy, perhaps Greece or Egypt) then you should consider 1 unit of both for every of these ''big colonies'', as I call them, just to let them be some kind of bodyguard for the local Governor and a few very loyal guys in case that this governor may try to form his own empire...
Well, if you expand that far, you should consider some military or administrational reforms. Such as forming standing forces and perhaps a change to monarchy (well, the fact is, Carthage is ruled by fat, rich merchants who only think of profit, if carthage extends over huge amounts of land you will need one strong Shophet to rule who does the best for the nation, not for his pocket) But just some suggestions to not get bored until I finally can lay my hand on Numahr's promising spreadsheet.

[Pharnakes]

Hi guys, seeing as you are all Qarthadastim fans I thought I would post this here. I have decided to try and get an E.B. PBeM campaign running and I think I will do it for the Qarthadastim. Please check my thread out, its over at the main E.B. forum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=81540). As it says there I am up for some fairly strict house rules and I thought some of you guys might like to join in. If you would please post there or P.M. me.

[Xtiaan72]

1. Let Romanii take Messana&Lilibeo and(?) Corsica&Sardinia (238bc/sell?) to simulate defeat in the 1st Punic War.
don`t use elite troops against Romanii this time
2. Build iberian Empire for Barcid child and win the 2nd Punic (Hannibal) war.
It will be more chellenging if romanii will have Polybian legions earlier then 210bc when Hanno will be conquering nothern italy (through alps undoubtly in 218bc).

I like these ideas

Especially the idea that the first invasion of Romani should be overland via Iberia. I think we should add that Rome itself can only be attacked after all other Rome provinces are conquered ( to simulate Carthage reluctance to siege the city)

[Krusader]

Only thing I'll add is about unit usage (sorry if I missed).

1-2 Sacred Band units only allowed of each type. And should a unit get wiped out, wait 10 years before recruiting a new one.

Any heavily armoured Carthaginian infantry (Late Liby-Phoenicians for example) should be recruited after facing Roman troops in battle. If general who faced them survives and fights so and so many battles, the Carthaginian army could get late/more armored troops as being recruitable to simulate effect of Carthaginians reforming their armies. (although if you face Epeirote armies with heavily armored troops, maybe then too).

Assault Infantry should be made available after you have problems assaulting a city or faced assault infantry of your own. Or if you conquer some settlements by starving the garrison, you could get assault infantry in limited numbers as a means to end sieges quicker should it be needed.

[Xtiaan72]

I will compile the best of these ideas at the top of thread in the next couple of days so we can kick off the challenge by the weekend. That still gives us a few days to revise the rules.