A new Civilization game has been announced.

[English assassin]

The main problem with Civ3 for me is that it just becomes too much to manage in the end game. You seem to spend all your time going around queuing up the next building and next unit in each city, or fiddling with city workers to try and fix the little problems that arise with happiness etc etc.

The early to mid game when you are exploring and founding cities is fun, but after a while it all becomes a micromanagement nightmare.

Agreed, also corruption is tedious. I have never played a game remotely through to the end (unless the end was my defeat)

[screwtype]

Agreed, also corruption is tedious. I have never played a game remotely through to the end (unless the end was my defeat)

LOL, I didn't want to admit it but it's the same for me. I've never managed to finish a Civ3 campaign, it's just too much hard work even when you're in front. At a certain point I usually just start a new campaign because I'm sick of the current one.

And yeah, the corruption feature sucks. In my last campaign I reduced it to a maximum of 50% which made it manageable, but then Civ4 came out and I never got around to finishing that campaign either.

[econ21]

Civ has always suffered from the late-game drag, but Civ4 less so than Civ2. That's partly because OCS is less prevalent so you have fewer cities; and partly because micromanagement of each city is reduced.

The point about the tech tree may be in contradiction to the late-game point. I find techs are discovered so fast in the modern era (about 7 turns per tech even on epic/huge), so the end-game actually goes too quickly for me. There's no point invading anyone or even managing your empire with great care; all that matters is cranking out the spaceship asap. (Maybe I should use other victory conditions, but they don't seem that appealing either.)

The most satisfying period for me in Civ4 is from roughly pikemen to redcoats. You are advanced enough that you can afford war without stalling your economy; and the end is still far away enough that the war, not the victory conditions, loom largest in your mind.

I do like the earlier period of exploration and development too - it is rather like the Imperialism 2 tightrope of managing smooth expansion. But I like a bit of combat too and early combat is just too costly in Civ (at least for a turtler like me - apparently massing 8 axemen and stomping the AI is the height of good strategy on higher difficulties. )

[screwtype]

Civ has always suffered from the late-game drag, but Civ4 less so than Civ2. That's partly because OCS is less prevalent so you have fewer cities; and partly because micromanagement of each city is reduced.

The point about the tech tree may be in contradiction to the late-game point. I find techs are discovered so fast in the modern era (about 7 turns per tech even on epic/huge), so the end-game actually goes too quickly for me. There's no point invading anyone or even managing your empire with great care; all that matters is cranking out the spaceship asap. (Maybe I should use other victory conditions, but they don't seem that appealing either.)

The most satisfying period for me in Civ4 is from roughly pikemen to redcoats. You are advanced enough that you can afford war without stalling your economy; and the end is still far away enough that the war, not the victory conditions, loom largest in your mind.

I agree, I think with Civ4 they went too far in the opposite direction. The way you race through the techs toward the end just feels wrong.

I do like the earlier period of exploration and development too - it is rather like the Imperialism 2 tightrope of managing smooth expansion. But I like a bit of combat too and early combat is just too costly in Civ (at least for a turtler like me - apparently massing 8 axemen and stomping the AI is the height of good strategy on higher difficulties. )

Yes, combat in Civ doesn't work very well at all. I remember the second last campaign I played in Civ3, I started a war in about the bronze age and it lasted over 1000 years! I think one city changed hands in all that time. Pretty silly really.

I had a similar problem with Civ4 too. I was trying to take an enemy city, but it took so long just to get my units in position that in the end I couldn't stand it anymore and just chucked in the whole campaign.

[econ21]

I had a similar problem with Civ4 too. I was trying to take an enemy city, but it took so long just to get my units in position that in the end I couldn't stand it anymore and just chucked in the whole campaign.

That's one reason I turtle in Civ. Playing Civ peacefully is slow; playing it to conquer must be agonising.

Defensive wars can be rather fast and furious though. It's not like RTW/M2TW when a silly pitiful stack may attack you. In Civ4, often if the AI attacks you, you can see half a dozen AI stacks suddenly looming out of the fog of war within a few turns. It is pretty impressive when you realise how long the AI must have spent marching across the huge map just to do this to you. I find those kind of situations really intense as my garrisons are pitiful but I usually have the tech and the economy to salvage the situation. What makes it particularly fun is the diplomacy - the AI suffers from war weariness so if you can inflict enough damage, you can sue for peace. But conversely, there is a shark mentality, so if the other AI factions smell blood, they may pitch in. And you can try to persuade others to join the war on your behalf. And...

Drat. Starting to work myself up into wanting another fix. Must stop posting.

[screwtype]

Drat. Starting to work myself up into wanting another fix. Must stop posting.

LOL, all the talk about Civ3 was having a similar effect on me - oh, the fun of grabbing those first few techs, getting to your first level 6 city, finding that iron ore tile, achieving promotion to the Medieval period, scoring your first infantryman! The joy of sailing your little galley around, finding that little batch of islands just off the mainland! That familiar little blooping sound when you reach end of turn!

Bah. Not sure I can resist just one more little peek...

[TinCow]

That's one reason I turtle in Civ. Playing Civ peacefully is slow; playing it to conquer must be agonising.

Have you tried going for cultural victories? Those games require you to avoid war at all costs and play the other civs off against each other. It's difficult, but very fun when you succeed.

[Ironside]

I agree, I think with Civ4 they went too far in the opposite direction. The way you race through the techs toward the end just feels wrong.

Ever played SMAC? My record is 5 techs/turn (future techs though).

I suspect it has to with your empire-size (and especially the economical side of it) as it's been more or less prevalent in all civ games (sadly I don't remember how much, played them all actually).

Edit: Slightly off-topic, what does the second sentence mean in "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?"

[Pannonian]

Ever played SMAC? My record is 5 techs/turn (future techs though).

I suspect it has to with your empire-size (and especially the economical side of it) as it's been more or less prevalent in all civ games (sadly I don't remember how much, played them all actually).

Magtubes is the key to multiple techs per turn, as it is the key to everything else advanced (the super former is probably the most powerful unit in the game). Tool up your supersized solar panel park, then rehome your crawlers to your science cities (several to enable multiple techs per turn, clustered around your capital to minimise corruption). Boost efficiency to insane levels with Democracy/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic, and set Research to 100% - the engineers freed by crawling in nutrients from your maximised farmland will be providing the economy. As you can imagine, this is not a viable tactic against human players, as the set-up is far too lengthy and vulnerable, but it is eminently achievable against the AI (read the one city challenges in the Apolyton forums for more pointers). Why anyone would bother is another question altogether.

BTW, have you ever tried the more advanced tactics during the competitive part of the game? Homing invasion forces to a base with a Punishment sphere to allow you to continue running Free Market, etc. My favourite was to use my massive former fleet to landbridge and magtube my conquests, usually neutralising the enemy faction within 2-3 turns. Edit: have you ever done the faction-wide pop-boom?

Edit: Slightly off-topic, what does the second sentence mean in "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?"

Who knows? But I can listen to Deirdre reciting a phonebook and I'd be happy. Edit: Oops, just realised it isn't Deirdre who says that, but Planet. Still, Yang remarking "What do I care about your suffering?" is probably my favourite quote.

[Ironside]

And here I fail to see this post for ages somehow

Magtubes is the key to multiple techs per turn, as it is the key to everything else advanced (the super former is probably the most powerful unit in the game). Tool up your supersized solar panel park, then rehome your crawlers to your science cities (several to enable multiple techs per turn, clustered around your capital to minimise corruption). Boost efficiency to insane levels with Democracy/Green/Knowledge/Cybernetic, and set Research to 100% - the engineers freed by crawling in nutrients from your maximised farmland will be providing the economy. As you can imagine, this is not a viable tactic against human players, as the set-up is far too lengthy and vulnerable, but it is eminently achievable against the AI (read the one city challenges in the Apolyton forums for more pointers). Why anyone would bother is another question altogether.

That critical mass thingy happens thanks to a major empire with massive build-ups I think, I don't really aim for it (more than that I like to tech).

BTW, have you ever tried the more advanced tactics during the competitive part of the game? Homing invasion forces to a base with a Punishment sphere to allow you to continue running Free Market, etc. My favourite was to use my massive former fleet to landbridge and magtube my conquests, usually neutralising the enemy faction within 2-3 turns. Edit: have you ever done the faction-wide pop-boom?

Not many, as at this point I would usually have gotten the tech leap started (didn't play on hardest as I didn't like the penalties you had). Graviton ships with locusts of chiron was a nice speed invasion combo though.

Only with the cloning vats and hydropod satelites. Bit problematic if you run this too early though, as you need to be able to handle the planetary damage or end up with a lot of fungus and mind worm attacks.

Who knows? But I can listen to Deirdre reciting a phonebook and I'd be happy. Edit: Oops, just realised it isn't Deirdre who says that, but Planet. Still, Yang remarking "What do I care about your suffering?" is probably my favourite quote.

Yes Yang does have some good quotes (there's a lot of them in there), but to be honest, he scares me.

Never played SMAC online, so I know that a decent player would probably defeat me quite badly.

[screwtype]

Edit: Slightly off-topic, what does the second sentence mean in "Eternity lies ahead of us, and behind. Have you drunk your fill?"

That's a tech quote in SMAC?

I guess it means carpe diem - seize the day.

[Ironside]

That's a tech quote in SMAC?

I guess it means carpe diem - seize the day.

aye, the one for future techs, so you heard that a lot in the end game. SMAC does have exellent quotes though.