Diplomacy Question:

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Hey all, Was wondering if anybody knows why the AI never (in my experience) offers you ceasefire? Even when you have it against the wall. I remember the AI offering ceasefire in Vanilla, so I'm asking because I think the AI is hardcoded, so I don't think there is anything the EB team could have done to change this. Just wondering.

Thanks.

[Brightblade]

What diplomacy?

The AI will offer ceasefires when it deems them necessary. If they don't accept it, kill them off. They're dumb like that. Oh well. SOmetimes you'll find the AI to be extremely dumb, other times a light will shine in the darkness of its brain and it'll offer terms that make sense.

BB

[edyzmedieval]

We tried to do some changes to influence diplomacy, using the text files. We've done something, but not too significant.

AI editing is impossible. Diplomacy is hardcoded.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Ok, I will rephrase my question then: Has anybody been offered a ceasefire by the AI while playing EB? I remember in Vanilla this was pretty common when the AI factions were facing defeat, yet in EB no faction has offered me a ceasefire even while facing total destruction.

Thanks

[Batahr]

Yes, I've had ceasefires offered to me by the AI. In all cases it was a faction that didn't share (or no longer shared) any border with me.

[The Errant]

Yes. In my 0.80 Macedonian campaign i kicked the Epirotes out of Greece during the first 20 turns. They were left with Taras in Italy as their only settlement. About 20 years later I'm expanding along the Illyrian coast taking mining towns and trying to establish a bufferzone of some expendable provinces between me and the Romans.
I've just taken Patavium with a mostly mercenary stack and suddenly I get a call from a friendly Epirote diplomat offering to "End hostilities between are two great nations". I've been at war with them since I kicked them out of Greece.
I accept. The next turn the same diplomat comes and offers trade rights. Now I know something fishy is going on since the AI is rarely in a friendly mood, so I send a couple of spies to Italy.
It seems the Epirotes went on a rampage since I kicked them out of Greece. They control all of southern Italy, Messana in Sicily, and are besieging Ariminium.
The romans have a sizeable empire in Germany but nowhere near enough troops to stop the Epirotes from rolling all over Italy.
I bet the moment the two of us started to share a common border, they would attack me again. The AI can and will offer ceasefire and trade rights. But the treaty will never last as long as you share a border with it.
No chance in Hell.

[Fondor_Yards]

Like The Errant, if you don't share a boarder anymore they will accept peace/offer it. But as soon as that boarder is back, so is war.

The Seleucids offer to make me a protectorate every turn, does that count? I say no and continue to steal their cities and crush their armies, but that's not the point.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Ok, I guess that answers my question...but even while sharing borders in vanilla the AI would offer peace...or I'm I wrong...long time since I dont play Vanilla...hehe

[soibean]

Ive found that in EB they only offer the cease fire if, as everyone else stated, they aren't bordering your provinces. Whenever this happens, they generally are willing to pay you thousands for a peace. Now if you were to reject the ceasefire and then the next turn ask them for the same conditions they offered through your own diplomat, they will most likely reject it and continue the war.
I find it interesting that map information pretty much means nothing anymore and same with alliances. Back in vanilla you could sell both for a few thousand each, but now no one will buy your map and everyone wants simply an alliance with no kickbacks

[The Errant]

Glad to see the AI is consistent. The Seleucids kept offering me protectorate aswell. Only problem is they had an army outside one of my cities, so the protectorate gets cancelled every turn since they always end their turn by besieging my settlement.
The next turn they once again offer protectoracy only to break it next turn. It's like an endless cycle of AI idiocy. Make up your mind. You want me to be at war with you, fine. Attack. No you want me to be your protectorate. Fine. We are at peace. You happy now. No, here comes the next siege...it goes on...and on...and on..........

[Redigo]

Just a theory I've advanced elsewhere, but I think the AI never really feels like it's "on the ropes" because of the (very necessary) scripted cash subsidies the AI factions receive, and therefore sees no reason to accept a ceasefire. Also, at the recommended VH campaign setting ceasefires would be tough to get even in vanilla.

That said, as the Romani I was just offered an expensive ceasefire by AS when we shared a border, albeit a remote one in North Africa. They'd just gotten into it with Baktria, Makedon, and Epirus in less than two turns.

[Thaatu]

I've actually noticed that AI is more prone to accepting a ceasefire when playing with VH. In my games it usually does this to regroup and attack again, but then again everything in RTW seems to differ depending on who's playing.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Just a theory I've advanced elsewhere, but I think the AI never really feels like it's "on the ropes" because of the (very necessary) scripted cash subsidies the AI factions receive, and therefore sees no reason to accept a ceasefire. Also, at the recommended VH campaign setting ceasefires would be tough to get even in vanilla.

That said, as the Romani I was just offered an expensive ceasefire by AS when we shared a border, albeit a remote one in North Africa. They'd just gotten into it with Baktria, Makedon, and Epirus in less than two turns.

AHA! I think you nailed it...the scripted cash is what keeps the AI hopes "artificially" upm, meaning it won't offer a ceasefire even if it is "against the ropes". Umm...interesting...

[Domitius Ulpianus]

I've actually noticed that AI is more prone to accepting a ceasefire when playing with VH. In my games it usually does this to regroup and attack again, but then again everything in RTW seems to differ depending on who's playing.

The point here is not the AI accepting a ceasefire...but proposing it.

[Zarax]

It might also depend on AI personality, comfortable and fortified types seems to be a bit more reasonable...

[Danest]

Different factions have different AI settings, I think. It probably affects their diplomacy personalities. The seleukids were, the other day, repeatedly besieging my towns. I'd immediately propose a ceasefire while my town was still surrounded, along with a demand for 1000 mnai. They'd accept and give me the cash, then seige my town again... repeat. I really don't know why they kept attacking me, and then ceasefiring with a 1,000 bonus, without a single battle. Probably the strangest thing I've ever seen the AI do.

[antisocialmunky]

The Epeirotes offered me peace and then an Alliance so they could fight the Romans and have been doing so impressively considering I've conquered all their land in Greece. Also, alot of times when the script causes a war declaration, factions will quickly offer ceasefires. Sometimes they'll ceasefire with you if they don't hate you enough.

I've also tributed the Romans 100 for 10 turns and had them counter-propose me for a tribute of 100 for ten turns for a single 12340 mnai payment from them :-p I was allied with those previously mentioned Epeirotes and was trying not to be hated by Rome(three front wars are bad). I guess they like me even though they absolutely refuse to give me a map.

[L.C.Cinna]

In my current Romani campaign I had conquered Gaul and the Sweboz sent armies to besiege me every turn. I sent an army to destroy their most important towns. then I concentrated on the dacians on the balkans (I have screens on the last page of the faction progression thread) and fortified my towns boardering Germania. The Germanics couldn't build good troops anymore because I had destroyed all their barracks and then left the towns empty for them to take them back.

Then they came and offered a ceasefire. I accepted as I was busy elsewhere and I don't want their areas anyways. They withdrew all forces and started to attack the Sarmatians instead. they are nice and friendly now for 20 years.

One of the weird moves of the AI: the ptolies had a diplomat near Kyrene.and eacht turn he proposed the following "give us 140.000. accept or we will attack". I sent an assassin there, tried to kill the diplomat, the assassin failed. I click on "end turn". the diplomat offers me 24.000 as a present. I accepted lol seems like I scared him ;)

[Boyar Son]

You know, really, the AI offers you ceasefires. Sometimes when you want, sometimes when they want. I even got money and or cities out of it.

The AI will not bargain towards you easily, people should understand that, really, everyone just wants the game to go their way and not the games. At times the AI even told me to become their protectorate.

I hope everyone reads this so its clear to them, the AI is not stupid.

[Will_YouFight_ForME]

how do you get nations to offer themselves as protectorate?
i have NEVER had that happen to me
they only demand i become a protectorate
aahh

is there a technique?
in gameplay guides
"Ultimate_Guide_vs6"

they say force them into protectorate etc.
and ceasefire
but they never do
just stay passive and have minor battles
never form full stacks either

is there something wrong with my game?

[Boyar Son]

how do you get nations to offer themselves as protectorate?
i have NEVER had that happen to me
they only demand i become a protectorate
aahh

is there a technique?
in gameplay guides
"Ultimate_Guide_vs6"

they say force them into protectorate etc.
and ceasefire
but they never do
just stay passive and have minor battles
never form full stacks either

is there something wrong with my game?

No, the AI is playing mind games with you. You have to destroy them if they dont become protectorates.


the AI doesnt offer themselves! protectorates are gained when all odds are against them and you have to pay a large price

[L.C.Cinna]

And try to make good deals when they offer something.

Now the Ptoleimaioi started war against me. This wasn't what I had planned lol. I Had just finished conquering greece and the balkans and thought I'd spend some time building up my new towns so I started to reorganize everything. like replacing expensive garrisons with cheap ones, disbanding merc units I don't need anymore or moving them to guard border towns, refilling units and placing all my legions in forts while using the commanders as governors.

Anyways, the Ptolies underestimated the time I need to remobilize


Within 3 turns I moved 4 legions into Asia Minor, defeated one army in battle and besieged 3 towns. Ptolies got scared and offered a ceasefire but wanted 120.000 for that. I made a counter proposal: ceasefire, traderights, map info and 50.000 if they give me Sardis and Nikaia. they accepted. no need for a fight. and 50.000 really isn't much for 2 towns, especially if you make around 40.000 plus per year.

but we all know the AI, after a smart move comes a stupid one and they attacked again next turn. with the result of losing 2 fullstacks and 2 towns within the next few turns.

stupid ptolies, take this!

[Hegix]

The last Roman campaign I played I got a lot of ceasefire offers from Sweboz, Macedonia, Karthage and Seleucia. All of these were offered on the first few rounds of war, once I captured a few of their towns they never tried again.
For the Sweboz I had to send legions all the way up to Russia, exterminate them then let the settlements rebel so I wouldn't have to manage them any more. They just wouldn't accept any peace...

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Ha go figure, finally Carthage offered a ceasefire...thal lasted...one turn LOL. Bastard, treacherous AI!!!!