Theory of Global Warming

[gaelic cowboy]

All of this depends on the idea there is some base climate the earth must maintain for life untrue. The climate has been hotter colder there has even and correct me if i am wrong but a time when the air was of a lower or higher oxygen content etc etc. Greenies want to scare you into believing that the world will end in some kind of soylant green/blade runner industrial wasteland. Yes the earth is getting warmer are we causing it I would say yes. Is it terminal for humans if it gets even more warm I would say no. Will the oceans rise storms occur more often yes yes yes. However unlike that film the day after tommorow its unlikely to affect the europe or the usa. Insofar as these countries have both the financial and hunam resources to overcome the obstacles thrown up. Now we have a question do we care enough about the people in say africa to say help them to overcome encroaching desert deforestation etc etc. Answer NO

[TevashSzat]

May I remind you that Manhattan lies on an island and should there be a major Hurricane there, there will undoubtedly be record losses in money and human lives. What is more likely is that Katrinas will keep on occuring more frequently resulting is huge insurance hikes or just refusal of coverage in those areas causing masive financial problems for many who live close to the Gulf of Mexico. Furthermore, droughts may occur that could easily cause food prices to spike throughout the US.

[gaelic cowboy]

May I remind you that Manhattan lies on an island and should there be a major Hurricane there, there will undoubtedly be record losses in money and human lives. What is more likely is that Katrinas will keep on occuring more frequently resulting is huge insurance hikes or just refusal of coverage in those areas causing masive financial problems for many who live close to the Gulf of Mexico. Furthermore, droughts may occur that could easily cause food prices to spike throughout the US.

True on all counts but US/EU and can react better to a catastrophe than say Algeria. And before it's brought up New Orleans was terrible and yes it was not sorted properly but it was still only one city and geography is against it anyway. The world will not collapse overnight because I cant get insurance for my house or business. The US/EU can use it's vast land area to basically move to somewhere safer insurance wise. Food will go up only if supply is interupted since wheat is a large part of the diet and depends on specific conditions there will be years that food increases in price. However again the only people likely to starve will be in the third world. In case people did not realise many food staples have increased in price anyway due to increased energy prices. My real point if I even have a point I suppose is what can we do about it anyway. We cannot no matter how smart we are manage the weather if you start reading stuff about removing C02 from the atmospere or managing the climate then compost said article straight away. The best we can do is slightly reduce the amount we pump up there but we will have to live with a certain amount up there. My main problem with the Global warming idea is not that I dont believe it but I feel someone is pulling me along on some religous quest for utopia. Here is one for ye all just came to me I think it is classic Food miles are supposed to be bad ok yet greenie groups still want me to buy fairtrade coffee and tea hello food miles what happened to ye do they only count for multinationals or what.
By the way this is not attack on you Xdeathfire I am just sounding off like father jack in the corner of craggy island.

[TevashSzat]

But you do know that Us/Eu is horribly dependent on underdeveloped countries right? If there was a sever labor shortage in China due to labor shortage, you will see a difference with 100$ t-shirts and 500$ sneakers since most of all common US consumer goods come from labor in underdeveloped countries.

[gaelic cowboy]

True but they depend on us to buy the goods too and as long as there are poor people there will always be a ready supply of labour for T-shirt companies.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Those who say Global Warming is nonsense is right in the sense that we will probably not see any significant threat to our civilization within a couple of decade, but global warming isn't something that you could stop overnight, even if the human civilization stop emitting all greenhouse gases right now, it would still take us around half a century to counteract what we have been emitting. By the time global warming becomes too obvious to ignore, it would be too late and we wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

I could say the same for those who deny the existance of god. It wont affect you while your alive but it will be only too obvious when your dead so you better start praying now. Of course I have no more proof of the existence of god than you do of man made global warming but think of the consequences if your wrong. Its the same scare tactic.

[JimBob]

But, on the other hand, diong something now makes bigger problems now, and in the future. I think we should fully investigate the problem before any action takes place.

What problems will be caused because we decide to not wait for proof that mankind is affecting global warming and do something about stopping what is believed to be our contribution to it. Some companies will have to spend some money to cut down on emissions. We will probably end up with a new fuel source.

Do you have insurance? Its the same idea.

I could say the same for those who deny the existance of god. It wont affect you while your alive but it will be only too obvious when your dead so you better start praying now. Of course I have no more proof of the existence of god than you do of man made global warming but think of the consequences if your wrong. Its the same scare tactic.

1) There is scientific evidence for man made global warming. It is not definitive but its more than there is for God.
2) God is a personal choice. At the end of the day it only affects you because I don't believe you don't go to hell. But if you don't believe in global warming and pollute like crazy, I get roasted by the sun.

[gaelic cowboy]

Well lets proceed with caution on any thing to do with climate change. Not so long ago asbestos was supposed to be great for use in buildings now we pay hazmat people to remove it safely.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

What problems will be caused because we decide to not wait for proof that mankind is affecting global warming and do something about stopping what is believed to be our contribution to it. Some companies will have to spend some money to cut down on emissions. We will probably end up with a new fuel source.

The biggest mistake most who support the global warming theory I see is that we should concentrate on how to adapt to changing climate, not on how to control it. The earth has been far hotter in the past and we are still here. The only thing constant about our climate is that its constantly changing.

[gaelic cowboy]

The biggest mistake most who support the global warming theory I see is that we should concentrate on how to adapt to changing climate, not on how to control it. The earth has been far hotter in the past and we are still here. The only thing constant about our climate is that its constantly changing.

I totally agree we cant cotrol it and we shouldnt even try to. If as I believe we are causing global warming and yet we still can put up loads of counter arguments that tells me we would only mess up trying to control climate change. We should just roll with the punches so to speak and accept certain losses.

[dacdac]

Why do you guys make me do this? Here is a list of credible sources you can look up for yourself to see if i quoted it wrong. Since i have a climatologist in my family with a doctor's degree in climatology, and since he's the one who gave me some of these sources, there is no way you can deny them.
He works for NASA and says there is not a single co worker he has that actually believes in global warming b/c of their research.

He's even tried to be on the news, CNN to be exact, but they wouldn't have him for they felt he was wrong and was using skewed data tables.

Here are a couple graphs from random spots in Antarctica, where over 80% of the glaciers are growing and advancing. All the graphs you see from Antarctica are from the Antarctic Peninsula which makes up less than 5% of all of the continent. That Peninsula has been warming, but only by .4 degrees celcius in the past 50 years.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1

And this one from the middle of Greenland shows less than a 1 degree celcius change in the past 110 years! Of course some places are still warming ever since we got out of the LIA, or little ice age, or the medieval period that lasted for a couple hundred years.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1


one from the capital of Iceland. Again, about a .4 change in over a 100 years where man was putting out the most greenhouse gasses:
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/gi...um_neighbors=1

But wait, there's more! Take a look at these for now and i'll get back to you with more later.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

He works for NASA and says there is not a single co worker he has that actually believes in global warming b/c of their research.

Yet they always quote NASA as confirming global warming. Its the same with the IPCC report. Its not wriiten by the scientists but by the politicians who paid for the study.

[gaelic cowboy]

Its a well known fact that the Vikings when they lived in greenland experienced a differant climate to the one today eventually it got too cold and they either left or died out. But the problem is that was a natural thing but there is nothing natural about industrial smog and C02 and the like. Is it having an affect of course it is you dont get something for nothing. Is global warming real we really cant tell only people who look back if they are around will be able to tell.

[ShadeHonestus]

Everyone talks about these greenhouse gases, but limit it to evil man, without paying attention to to the actual Greenhouse Effect. If somebody else wishes to research the truth of what has the biggest impact toward the actual greenhouse effect rather than me just spewing it out to have it ignored. Maybe if these man made doom experts actually participated in finding rather than only exercising sham reasoning in the blind supporting of an issue based on rhetoric and incomplete science, we'd get the real picture.


I'll even give you two words that you'll never see in the New York Times or CNN, or even Fox (the oppose the argument but likewise fail to represent the science).

Sun Cycles (actually the term cycles is a bit misleading as it doesn't really mean a predictable cycle, read further at your own peril. In fact, just read up on the sun and its radiation in general.)
Water Vapor


Now run...run and find....dare you....



Coincidentally the mention of Vikings in Greenland bears merit. They were largely the victim of another such event of the sun and the resulting atmosphere here on earth.

[dacdac]

What problems will be caused because we decide to not wait for proof that mankind is affecting global warming and do something about stopping what is believed to be our contribution to it. Some companies will have to spend some money to cut down on emissions. We will probably end up with a new fuel source.

The problem with all of you who argue that point is you never think of the after effects. Every good action has a bad reaction to it. you can not do god without causing some bad. It's ying and yang in these situations

So, companies spend more money cutting down CO2 emmissions has no bad effects? We went through this in civics and economics class.

Looking through the eyes of an American Industrial business

Okay, Industry A, now abiding to the laws of cutting down CO2 and other greenhouse gas emmissions, has to pay more to be able to do that.
Well, to compensate for that increase in price, they either 1, charge more for their products, or 2. go over seas for cheap labor.
Now, let's say they go with 1.
now that their things cost more, you have to pay more to purchase it and a higher inflation rate occurs. This higher price on pretty much every thing you can think of buying except some foods puts even more people into poverty than previously. The value of our currency goes down. People lose jobs and homes and cars as they can't afford anything as most stuff is made in industrial businesses. Any business who uses paper has to pay more as paper mills have to pay more to cut down emmissions and sel it for more to gain a profit. Everything you buy goes up in price to keep items priced at an equal ratio and to keep up competition.

now, if 2 happens, then more and more companies go over seas to places like China and India where labor is cheap. Jobs are lost all over America, and fewer and fewer products are made here, making everything more expensive as it now has to be shipped over and exported back to America.

So, if you think that we should do something about a theory based on loose information with thousands and thousands of scientists screaming thier heads off trying to show that they have proof that it is wrong, then go ahead.
I know your kind of people, and you dont think of the consequences of your actions. Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions

[gaelic cowboy]

The problem with all of you who argue that point is you never think of the after effects. Every good action has a bad reaction to it. you can not do god without causing some bad. It's ying and yang in these situations

So, companies spend more money cutting down CO2 emmissions has no bad effects? We went through this in civics and economics class.

Looking through the eyes of an American Industrial business

Okay, Industry A, now abiding to the laws of cutting down CO2 and other greenhouse gas emmissions, has to pay more to be able to do that.
Well, to compensate for that increase in price, they either 1, charge more for their products, or 2. go over seas for cheap labor.
Now, let's say they go with 1.
now that their things cost more, you have to pay more to purchase it and a higher inflation rate occurs. This higher price on pretty much every thing you can think of buying except some foods puts even more people into poverty than previously. The value of our currency goes down. People lose jobs and homes and cars as they can't afford anything as most stuff is made in industrial businesses. Any business who uses paper has to pay more as paper mills have to pay more to cut down emmissions and sel it for more to gain a profit. Everything you buy goes up in price to keep items priced at an equal ratio and to keep up competition.

now, if 2 happens, then more and more companies go over seas to places like China and India where labor is cheap. Jobs are lost all over America, and fewer and fewer products are made here, making everything more expensive as it now has to be shipped over and exported back to America.

So, if you think that we should do something about a theory based on loose information with thousands and thousands of scientists screaming thier heads off trying to show that they have proof that it is wrong, then go ahead.
I know your kind of people, and you dont think of the consequences of your actions. Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions

Broadly in agreement with you on this one man actions have consequences.
like I said earlier it seem to be more an article of faith and dogma really.
Global warming has morphed from an enviromental concern to a mortal sin
Food miles are bad if I am Tesco but not if I am a farmer selling fairtrade coffee.
Apparently my dad is helping to warm the planet by farming cattle but we come from Ireland our climate is perfect for a grass based animal grazing.
If I buy meat from my dad it has low food mile ergo it should balence out.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

but there is nothing natural about industrial smog and C02

Nothing natural about CO2. Ill have to rememeber that

They even got to you Cowboy

All this talk of treating CO2 like its a poison. Tell you what. Try living without it.

[ShadeHonestus]

Nothing natural about CO2. Ill have to rememeber that

They even got to you Cowboy

All this talk of treating CO2 like its a poison. Tell you what. Try living without it.

Or try calculating the real contribution of Co2 to the global warming effect, its even more entertaining.

[gaelic cowboy]

Nothing natural about CO2. Ill have to rememeber that

They even got to you Cowboy

All this talk of treating CO2 like its a poison. Tell you what. Try living without it.

Sorry I meant the levels industry are pumping up into the atmosphere obviously.
Thanks for correcting me I didnt realise they had infected me the bloody
I was just about to buy a fairtrade coffee put on a hemp shirt and vote labour in our elections this summer here in ireland NOT
We will have to live with a certain amount of it pumped out and there is no two ways around it we just gotta live with fullstop.
Anyone ever notice how its all about changing lifestyle apparently like its some kind of diet. The one thing they never say is if we have to cut back because it killig us then poor people have to stay where they are in the third world. We cant cut levels back and then hand those levels to others that changes nothing.

[doc_bean]

Okay, Industry A, now abiding to the laws of cutting down CO2 and other greenhouse gas emmissions, has to pay more to be able to do that.
Well, to compensate for that increase in price, they either 1, charge more for their products, or 2. go over seas for cheap labor.
Now, let's say they go with 1.
now that their things cost more, you have to pay more to purchase it and a higher inflation rate occurs. This higher price on pretty much every thing you can think of buying except some foods puts even more people into poverty than previously. The value of our currency goes down. People lose jobs and homes and cars as they can't afford anything as most stuff is made in industrial businesses. Any business who uses paper has to pay more as paper mills have to pay more to cut down emmissions and sel it for more to gain a profit. Everything you buy goes up in price to keep items priced at an equal ratio and to keep up competition.

Wow, sounds dramatic, has anyone bothered to calculate hopw much these prices would increase ? Because the best estimates I know say a 2% loss of gross national product might occur. Nothing apocalyptic about that...

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It causes shortness of breath, difficulty in breathing, rapid pulse rate, headaches, hearing loss, hyperventilation, sweating, and fatigue, from 1000ppm (0,1%) (highest recommended level is 0,5 for in a working space, so I'm guessing it's not that serious for most people), at 1,5% this will came in a few hours. At 3% people can suffer serious symptoms, including nausea, dizziness, mental depression, shaking, visual disturbances and vomiting. If exposure persists, people may pass out and at about 7-10%% they will die

So your telling me that if I inhale pure CO2 Im going to die? Maybe your confusing it with carbon monoxide CO2 is not poisonous. You do realise it only makes up .03% of the atmosphere?

I'm happily living without it, thank you very much

You cant.

Well firstly there's a bit more proof of global warming than God.

Well I see it the other way around and Im not sure theres even a god.

[dacdac]

Originally posted by Ironside
I can say that the theory of man made global warming is about 100 years old. But as the CO2 emissions were much smaller at the time, it wasn't considered to be a factor to bother about.

Well, seeing how the big environmental issue up to the late 1970's was the theory of Global Cooling, and that there was a larger increase in temperature from 1900-1940 than from 1940-2000, i dont think the CO2 had much to do with it. And im not arguing the fact that the earth may or may not be warming, im arguing the fact that humans are putting out enough dangerous chemicals to cause a significant change in global climate, which is what the Theory of Glabal Warming is.

BTW eugenics isn't Lamarkian, rather the opposite (Lamarkian is that you inherit the traits of what their parents did during thier life time).

If you were born normal, got in a crash and became mentally unstable the gov't would still put in a institute and sterilize you for they thought you had developed the stupid gene and could pass it on. They were several cases where if you lost a body part you would be sterilized for you had a bad gene that could then be passed on, dilluting the perfect human race. In essence, eugenics was a hidden form of racism.


The earth would still be warming right now even if humans had never existed on this planet. It is a continous cycle that the earth has gone through since basically its existence. Ever since the Little Ice Age of the medieval times, the earth has been warming. All of the little "ice core samples" the global warming activists use is complete crap seeing as how they can't tell you how the temp was on a world wide basis. If i pass by some ice spewing, let's say methane, with a hose, then 10,000 years later scientists would that our atmosphere was greatly made up of methane.

The Antarctic Peninsula iceberg that broke off that was the size of Rhode Island has been proven in the last few years that it was a shift in the earth underneath it, not global warming. Plus, that Rhode Island size iceberg is still the size of Rhode Island, it's just a couple of meters away from the shore now. Lastly, the Anarctic Peninsula is nothing compared to the size of the whole continent. It's the only place in Antarctica that is warming and it is the only graphs and info. you've seen by the global warming activist.

Watch the Inconvenient Truth (or in Al Gore's case, the Convenient Lie) and you'll know the guy i was talking about who made the wrong predictions. He's the professor that shoed Gore the graphs he had made. Isn't it interesting how there weren't even 3 scientists names said in that entire film. Every bit of info he got was from a "good friend of mine".

And you must have no clue how much money is being made by big companies and activists groups from brainwashing the public with skewed and incorrect data, b/c it is in the billions and billions per year.

If only people would stop letting everyone else think for them and think for themselves. If anyone actually questioned things and researched on thier own, the would find the truth. I apologize for being Socratic about this, but it's your loss. People tell me that there is no way i cant believe in it when everyone else does, and i tell them that if everyone is thinking alike, then somebody isn't thinking. No one questions anything anymore, they just take what they hear and accept it as fact, like a gospel of sorts. To me, you guys are the people who still believe the earth is flat and silences anyone who says it's not true.

[Ironside]

So your telling me that if I inhale pure CO2 Im going to die? Maybe your confusing it with carbon monoxide CO2 is not poisonous. You do realise it only makes up .03% of the atmosphere?

If you breathe an air with 80% CO2 and 20% oxygen you'll be dead within a few minutes... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract. Old but the first link I've found were they actually killed stuff with CO2 poisoning.

The pH in the blood is controlled with a carbon acid buffer (CO2 disolved in water) and if the CO2 levels is too high in the air, the pH in the blood gets too low.

And I'm well aware that the CO2 levels in the atmosphere is way below the dangerous dosages, but it's still poisionous by itself in higher amounts.

You cant.

All the CO2 I need is self produced, I would never need to breathe a single CO2 molecule in my life and still not lack anything of my biological functions. For humans, its a waste. For almost all ecosystems, the gas is vital though.

Well I see it the other way around and Im not sure theres even a god.

You're saying that's very little evidence of a) the world is heating (global average)? b) CO2 levels is rising due to human influence? c) CO2 is a greenhouse gas? d) that it also exist stronger greehouse gases that has increased in the atmosphere due to human influence?

That it's other major factors involved when it comes to the global weather is certainly true though. Although funnily enough they do much better to describe the changes in the temperature in the past compared to the current increase.

In essence, eugenics was a hidden form of racism.

That I'm agreeing on (although a word that means the same as racism, but with no race involved could be useful, as the race didn't always matter), but I wasn't aware of the Lamarkian influence on eugenics. Thanks for the information.

The Antarctic Peninsula iceberg that broke off that was the size of Rhode Island has been proven in the last few years that it was a shift in the earth underneath it, not global warming. Plus, that Rhode Island size iceberg is still the size of Rhode Island, it's just a couple of meters away from the shore now. Lastly, the Anarctic Peninsula is nothing compared to the size of the whole continent. It's the only place in Antarctica that is warming and it is the only graphs and info. you've seen by the global warming activist.

I want global graphs, not on Antartica, as the global warming activist haven't been showing his Antartica graphs for me. And I haven't seen any serious suggestion that Antartica will melt for a very long time. If I have understood correctly there's more worries about the pack ice around Antartica and that it seems to be shrinking.

And you must have no clue how much money is being made by big companies and activists groups from brainwashing the public with skewed and incorrect data, b/c it is in the billions and billions per year.

I'm agreeing that it's a lot of desinformation from both sides, both intentional and unintentional (linking things together that may later show weaker connections that first reported, or no connections at all). And that the information keeps on shifting (getting disproved, for both sides) doesn't makes it easier.

No one questions anything anymore, they just take what they hear and accept it as fact, like a gospel of sorts. To me, you guys are the people who still believe the earth is flat and silences anyone who says it's not true.

Ahh the irony. You're aware that the earth is flat thingy is a myth, made up about 200 years ago? Using the geocentrical worldview instead of the earth is flat is much better.