great pike experience

[anders]

Something wonderful just happened!

I ordered pike militia to attack a previously engaged unit of lancers, and the pikemen actually followed orders!

I mean, instead of raising their pikes, casually walking into the fray, and taking meaningless losses before drawing their swords, they kept their pikes lowered, stayed in formation, and started jabbing away at the lancers, quickly defeating them.

Oh the joy! And this with no patches or fixes installed.

[vonsch]

You've clearly found a bug!

[pike master]

when not charged directly and used to flank they do tend to do better in the game. but that is contradictory to the purpose of pike units which is to form a solid base around which your cav and light infantry can maneuvre.

but for now it is a good use to maneuvre them like that. hopefully pikes will be tweaked a bit on 1.2 to at least look like they are using pikes more.

[Tiberius maximus]

yeah well cav. still stroll through my pike lines no matter what i do!

[HoreTore]

Hmm, well, in my recent scots campaign, my pikes did well. As long as I kept them stationary, they held against most cavalry. Scots pike milita killed off hobilars and held mailed knights, while the heavy militia held order knights...

[_Aetius_]

I've played a full campaign as the scots and hardly ever used pikemen, they are to hit and miss.

If they stand there ground and keep pikes fixed they are near immovable, if they raise their pikes they may still win, but I may aswell just use swordsmen.

[Xehh II]

Why is it that nobody seems to be able to use pikes apart from me? I never have trouble with pikes, they are always good to me, all of my armies use at least 5 units of pikes.

[pike master]

if a person likes a unit and is disappointed in the way it performs, if he is determined he will a find a way to make them work;)

[Miracle]

Here's a way to make them work:



Two units, two rows each, one immediately behind the other. Guard mode off.

[vonsch]

Good idea, but why not go one farther and put something good offensively in the front rows? They screen the pikes from pulling their swords, and the pikes absorb any charges... or so I would expect. I have heard this works well with ranged units though. Like crossbows, not on skirmish.

I'm more of a cav player, I guess. Haven't messed with pikes here yet, just spears.

[Carl]

I just tried it with 4 Heavy pike Militia, 4 Noble Pikes, 4 Scots Pike Militia, and 2 Noble Swordsmen for flank guard duties.

HRE forces against me with 4 Forlorn Hope, 4 DGK, and 4 Zweihanders.

Almost half again as expensive as my Pikes and they got beat with a 2-1 kill rate, 3-1 if you only count the pike kill/loss rates and ignore what the Noble Swordsmen did.

I had the front two ranks of the second pike unit in the back 2 ranks of the front pike unit and they where all deployed 3 ranks deep. it basically confirmed what I've suspected all along, part of the issue with pikes is them switching to swords too soon, but an even bigger part is the fact that they fight in too few ranks.

[Miracle]

Good idea, but why not go one farther and put something good offensively in the front rows? They screen the pikes from pulling their swords, and the pikes absorb any charges... or so I would expect. I have heard this works well with ranged units though. Like crossbows, not on skirmish.

I'm more of a cav player, I guess. Haven't messed with pikes here yet, just spears.

I just tried a pike & shot formation with arquebusiers one line ahead of a unit of pikemen. About 2.5 pike-lengths behind them were scots guards. They were able to decimate any melee unit with very few casualties.

The downside with this is that the formation is disorderly after a melee and vulnerable to a second charge. It's also vulnerable to enfilade long range missile and artillery fire. Flanking units usually aren't a problem provided a flanking screen is present.

[HoreTore]

Why is it that nobody seems to be able to use pikes apart from me? I never have trouble with pikes, they are always good to me, all of my armies use at least 5 units of pikes.

I believe that the way to use pike units today, is to mix them into your line, not to make a pike line. For example like this:

sword - pike - sword - pike - sword

My experience is very limited since my favourite factions don't have pikes, but the times I've used them, this is he way I've made them work. It only works on the defensive, and the line must be stationary. The way it works, is that the pikes fend off cavalry, while the swords deal with the rest. There is a BIG chance that the AI will mess up its cavalry charge when you have pike units mixed into your line. They will still go for the sword units of course, but they will more likely than not mess up, halt their charge, clip the pikes, etc etc...

[Xehh II]

I believe that the way to use pike units today, is to mix them into your line, not to make a pike line. For example like this:

sword - pike - sword - pike - sword

My experience is very limited since my favourite factions don't have pikes, but the times I've used them, this is he way I've made them work. It only works on the defensive, and the line must be stationary. The way it works, is that the pikes fend off cavalry, while the swords deal with the rest. There is a BIG chance that the AI will mess up its cavalry charge when you have pike units mixed into your line. They will still go for the sword units of course, but they will more likely than not mess up, halt their charge, clip the pikes, etc etc...

I never do that, all I do is have my whole front line made of pikes and have swordsmen and cav to flank and archers/guns behind, this always works for me.

[TevashSzat]

Well...have firearms behind your pikemen do not work since I believe they stop shooting with units in front of them due to friendly fire: muskets can shoot in a arc

[Loki]

I just tried it with 4 Heavy pike Militia, 4 Noble Pikes, 4 Scots Pike Militia, and 2 Noble Swordsmen for flank guard duties.

HRE forces against me with 4 Forlorn Hope, 4 DGK, and 4 Zweihanders.

Almost half again as expensive as my Pikes and they got beat with a 2-1 kill rate, 3-1 if you only count the pike kill/loss rates and ignore what the Noble Swordsmen did.

I had the front two ranks of the second pike unit in the back 2 ranks of the front pike unit and they where all deployed 3 ranks deep. it basically confirmed what I've suspected all along, part of the issue with pikes is them switching to swords too soon, but an even bigger part is the fact that they fight in too few ranks.

CARL!!! What?!?!?! You mean to tell us all your *not* using your own problem fixer?

[Carl]

I use it normally, but only Vanillia has pikes with Swords, so it was the only test platform i had. the first unit switches to swords but the second keeps pike, with 3 units stacked close the front unit almost never switches to swords.

[Ancient Mariner]

Hey Carl, could this work? : (copied from another forum)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
by Condottiere SOG
Latest;
figured out how to make pikemen use the pike more and the sword less!

this is how i have it set now. notice these #'s

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.65
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.35
stat_sec_attr no

these numbers are usage preferential numbers. you can simply change them the match you desires....... I think pikemen were more likely to be like this, for instance............

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.85
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.15
stat_sec_attr no

i believe i got this right last night when i was watching a unit of Flemish pikemen go at another unit. The pikemen only used swords when right next to the enemy, otherwise i watched a unit of norman viking raiders get mowed down. IT WAS AWESOME!

these numbers do not have to add up to 1.00 or 100%

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.75
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.45
stat_sec_attr no

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Carl]

@ Ancient Mariner, intresting that one. Will look into it.

[Lorenzo_H]

Here's a way to make them work:



Two units, two rows each, one immediately behind the other. Guard mode off.

How come Adventureros look so cool?