General Question:

[antisocialmunky]

I'm curious as to what all you other EB players out there think about General's HP. Do you think its too much?

I haven't had a huge issue with it but I do think sometimes it gets just plain ridiculous. I'm sure alot of you guys are familiar with the generals wading through hordes of enemy infantry poking them to death or generals being mobbed by hundreds of units in a siege and eventually pinned against a wall before being unhorsed about five minutes later at super speed.

I'll admit that there is a certain epic charm worthy of the Byzantine Jedi Katank generals of RTW but I can't help but feel that its all kinda silly...

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Also I'm wondering whether or not the game is too optimistic in its assignment of combat related traits to generals. I wouldn't mind seeing more combat related bad traits liked 'hobbled' instead of 'scarred.' I mean, you can only get injured and keep going for so long. Even Alexander slowed down after he was nearly killed by that arrow.

I propose a time sensitive trait like 'Wounded' or 'Grieviously Wounded' triggered using something similiar to 'scarred' that factors in the general's vitality and age that would go away after one season and two to three seasons respectively and would give generals a hitpoint penalty and movement penalty for the duration that they have it. You could also perhaps tie a 'missing a few fingers' or 'crippled' line of traits to the general when he recovers. It would make taking risks with the general more double edged and a gamble and outcomes more uncertain. Its too bad you can't increase chances of dropping dead at a young age, otherwise a 'Hanging on by a Thread' trait.

Also, it'd be interesting to have a hidden trait to record how many times he's been injured and have some traits such as 'Time has caught up,' which is based on how many injuries he's received. This would also encourage people to take those 70 year old generals and retire them to some nice years of breeding.

Also, another interesting trait line could be a line of 'Survivor' traits which gives a moral bonus to the troops depending how many injuries the general survives.

[Foot]

That is quite a nice system you have there, I would like to something in EB like that. Would add even more character to the generals.

Foot

[Boyar Son]

Those indeed are some great traits

[The Errant]

Generals are overpowered. It's good that generals are tougher than the average soldier or even officer but no matter how good, once the bodyguards are gone, a general shouldn't be able to ride out of a sea of enemy spearmen trying to kill him.
That particular ability is THE worst killer of realism in the game.
Infantry generals are better in this since unmounted they can't make a run for it when things get too hot.

The traits you mentioned are interesting. They would make a lot of sense to a general who's been trough alot. Also taking your 70 year old generals on campaign isn't really a good thing. At that age they should have earned the right to retire and manage some province or other.
If the traits are modified to take this into account I'm sure it will improve the game a lot.

[BozosLiveHere]

Hmm, interesting.

[antisocialmunky]

Thanks for the complements, if I knew how to mod RTW more, I would try implementing a rudementary system for this since it uses preexisting trigger.

I bet one of the reasons that generals last so long is that generals sometimes, I've observed, they get In the Pink, Hale and Hearty, AND Scarred or some combination of the three for a +3 to some ridiculously high number. I think that a +2 to +4 hitpoint value is fairly good for the general to be robust but nto silly. Its not much of a problem with foot generals since they can't run but mounted guys are a completely different story.

As for retiring, you could set something up where if the old general stays in a city with a 'homeland' marker for a year or so and has 'grizzled' or above, they get a trait called 'Retired Hero' that limits his movements and increases his influence and management and increases fertility. It would also be nice if his kids got higher chances of being like dad.

I don't think its an ideal solution but its a starting point.

P.S. - If you do indeed implement it, think about making 'reckless' or 'careless' increase the chances of being wounded and 'favour of the gods' and others decrease it.

[Karielle]

Also taking your 70 year old generals on campaign isn't really a good thing. At that age they should have earned the right to retire and manage some province or other.

I just can't help bringing my 70 year old faction leader out on major campaigns, I like seeing his eight command stars and other traits out there.. Even if he does have One Foot in the Grave. Oh well. His poor wife is long gone..

And I absolutely hate and at the same time morbidly enjoy running down routing generals. Takes a lot of shepherding and strategically placed reserve cavalry to run them down, or coax them into range of slinger fire..

Those traits do sound like a nice addition, though!

[Rilder]

'Grieviously Wounded' - This man, in his last battle has been injured badly, though he might be able to command it would be suicide for him to try to fight himself -1 Command(cause of the pain) -5 hitpoints.

Maybe have it trigger if a generals body guard gets down under a certain number like 5-10 on Large unit Sizes.

[antisocialmunky]

You can do triggers that take into consideration unit amounts?

[JeffSteel]

While uber generals can be a real pain when they happen, it dosent happen all that often to be game breaking or anything. This injury system sounds like a great idea to me though.

[The Errant]

I just can't help bringing my 70 year old faction leader out on major campaigns, I like seeing his eight command stars and other traits out there.. Even if he does have One Foot in the Grave. Oh well. His poor wife is long gone..

And I absolutely hate and at the same time morbidly enjoy running down routing generals. Takes a lot of shepherding and strategically placed reserve cavalry to run them down, or coax them into range of slinger fire..

Those traits do sound like a nice addition, though!

If you have to bring a 70 year old faction leader out on major campaigns by all means do so. I just think he should have movement penalties reflecting his age, and not partake in any heavy fighting.

Somehow I just can't see a 70 year old running or riding around in the heat of battle fighting enemies with the same vigour as someone in his early twenties.

He should be ready to drop dead the moment any serious fighting reaches the bodyguards. He can still sit around looking impressive on a horse giving morale bonuses though. That isn't all that taxing.

I remember cornering a Ptoly general in the townsquare of Pselkis with four units of phalangites, two generals, four skirmishers, six Ethiopian Guard and a unit of elephants. He was alone surrounded and the elephant kept banging his sorry ass against the wall for a good five minutes, real time, before he finally bought it.

Anything to avoid that from ever happening again. Thank EB for infantry generals. Tough they may be, but atleast they don't fight their way out off a horde of spearmen, just to run off the map and come back next turn with a full stack of mercs and half their bodyguards regenerated.

[antisocialmunky]

I just can't help bringing my 70 year old faction leader out on major campaigns, I like seeing his eight command stars and other traits out there.. Even if he does have One Foot in the Grave. Oh well. His poor wife is long gone..

And I absolutely hate and at the same time morbidly enjoy running down routing generals. Takes a lot of shepherding and strategically placed reserve cavalry to run them down, or coax them into range of slinger fire..

Those traits do sound like a nice addition, though!

You know there is a compromise that could be reaches where a 'retired' general increase the chances of his child being like him and start off having a few good command star traits or something.

[Karielle]

The only thing that's stopping me from leaving him in the city is his comparatively better use as a morale booster and commander than as a governer because of his few management scrolls and traits.. Which leads me to this question: Will he still be able to produce offspring even at 70-plus, and without a wife?

If you have to bring a 70 year old faction leader out on major campaigns by all means do so. I just think he should have movement penalties reflecting his age, and not partake in any heavy fighting.

Somehow I just can't see a 70 year old running or riding around in the heat of battle fighting enemies with the same vigour as someone in his early twenties.

He should be ready to drop dead the moment any serious fighting reaches the bodyguards. He can still sit around looking impressive on a horse giving morale bonuses though. That isn't all that taxing.

I remember cornering a Ptoly general in the townsquare of Pselkis with four units of phalangites, two generals, four skirmishers, six Ethiopian Guard and a unit of elephants. He was alone surrounded and the elephant kept banging his sorry ass against the wall for a good five minutes, real time, before he finally bought it.

Anything to avoid that from ever happening again. Thank EB for infantry generals. Tough they may be, but atleast they don't fight their way out off a horde of spearmen, just to run off the map and come back next turn with a full stack of mercs and half their bodyguards regenerated.

One of the reasons I make sure I terminate the generals. Nothing more annoying than whittling him down to his lone self and having him run off the map, only to return with half or even all his bodyguards regenerated. Guh.

And that's a pretty interesting point of view. Perhaps that 70ish general should stop behaving like a twenty-thirty year old. It's just that he tends to insist on it, being a lively sort and not at all inclined to let the young'uns do all the work..

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

I don't expect my generals to be 60, never even had one over 70. However, I once had someone who was quite old and he got certain traits that diminished his fertility, and it decreased... (however his wife was already dead for quite a while.

[The Errant]

One of the reasons I make sure I terminate the generals. Nothing more annoying than whittling him down to his lone self and having him run off the map, only to return with half or even all his bodyguards regenerated. Guh.

And that's a pretty interesting point of view. Perhaps that 70ish general should stop behaving like a twenty-thirty year old. It's just that he tends to insist on it, being a lively sort and not at all inclined to let the young'uns do all the work..

Nail his horse's hooves to the floor. That will keep him from running around.
If that dosen't work nail his feet to the floor. That should keep him from running around and dying gloriously in battle. If he hasn't gone out in a blaze of glory by now, he will have to settle for dying in nice, soft, warm and comfortable bed...

[Dooz]

Very nice. I like the temporary 'wounded' type effects. Is that possible specifically?

[antisocialmunky]

I don't expect my generals to be 60, never even had one over 70. However, I once had someone who was quite old and he got certain traits that diminished his fertility, and it decreased... (however his wife was already dead for quite a while.

55 would probably be a best age to do it. They'll have about 20 turns worth of pretty much guarenteed life.

Very nice. I like the temporary 'wounded' type effects. Is that possible specifically?

I would expect it to seeing as:

It uses a similiar trigger to 'Savior' and it has a lingering but dimnishing effect like 'Under The Weather'/'Confined to Bed.'

[Will_YouFight_ForME]

i think thats a great idea

we should be aloud to vote for aspects that we think are good!

[antisocialmunky]

Well, unless someone wants to implement it themselves or the traits team is going to do it even though it does seem to be a favorable idea. I don't see the point of posting a poll.

You can express yourself adequately enough in post form anyway.