Faction List for EB2?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

But they weren't benefiting from solid Roman amicitia in 272. Shortly after our game starts, they did become loyal friends and remained so for half a century, but it's still up in the air a bit in 272.

[Zim]

Huzza, we now have 3 Massilia supporters!

Make it four, love those Massalian Hoplites. It would be neat to see what other troops a faction that mixes Celtic and Greek culture would have, and giving them a few straight Celtic and Greek units(and maybe those Graeco-Celt spearmen) would save a little on the need to make new units.

[Roman_Man#3]

Dont know how much of a power they were, but how about the Galatians?

[Quilts]

That's what the Lvl 4 MIC represents, no? Here's a list to explain:

Level 1: Homeland- Field Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Identical, governed by your faction
Level 2: Province- Field Most Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Similar, governed by your faction
Level 3: Subjugated Land- Field Most Local Troops, Pay Some Taxes, Culturally Different, governed by puppet rulers or rulers subject to your government
Level 4: Allied State- Field Local Troops, No taxes, Culturally Independant, totally self-governed

Syracuse was basically a Lvl 4 province of Rome, in game terms.

Thanks for pointing that out. The problem is that you have to conquer them to make them so. Something that didn't happen. Why can't I enter an alliance with them? Because they are the Rebel faction.

Well perhaps what's needed is to 'divy up' the rebel faction to incorporate groups acting with the same interests, and can engage in diplomacy.

I know the modders hands are tied regarding the Rebs, but with the extra faction slots we can work on this a little.

Cheers,

Quilts

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Make it four, love those Massalian Hoplites. It would be neat to see what other troops a faction that mixes Celtic and Greek culture would have, and giving them a few straight Celtic and Greek units(and maybe those Graeco-Celt spearmen) would save a little on the need to make new units.

I'm all for Massilia, but I must be the only one who thinks those holites kind of suck :\...

[Zim]

I'm all for Massilia, but I must be the only one who thinks those holites kind of suck :\...

Well, I wouldn't say they were great on the battlefield, unless you're a prereform Celt without Aventicos(for the much ebtter Mori Gaesum) in need of some armored infantry. I like them mostly because the idea seems neat, and I like the way they look.

[LordCurlyton]

They are definitely not as good as other hoplites, but then they are cheaper and are IMO one the best lighter infantry out there. In a pinch, setting them on guard mode will allow them to hold basically any part of the line long enough, unless you have completely underestimated the opposition.

[Morte66]

I think I'm going to kick in a vote for Syracuse. Maybe they wouldn't last too well as an AI faction, but they look like a lot of fun to play which I think is what really matters.

And they're certainly not that weak in EB1. You've a city of ~10000 with a high growth rate, stone walls, a port slap in the middle of the Mediterranean trade, and Carthage will come after your 7 star general with their medium spearmen. Compare that to Pontos: a couple of thousand people, a ring of sticks, no port, no generals of note, and psycopathic Seleucids with advanced pike phalanxes who want to crush you.

{edit} Also, Syracuse is a name to conjure with. I'd heard of Hannibal's siege of Syracuse before I knew where Syracuse was, it's sort of famous for being famous. Put Syracuse in the game and people will want to play it.

{edit 2} And it's got interesting options in the hands of a good player. Defeat the Carthaginian field army. Go north, take Messina for taxbase and as a fortress against Italy. Take Lillibeo and you have no land frontier with Carthage, maybe they'll make peace. Or do you want to take Corsica and Sardinia before sending the diplomat, since they're weakly held and can build mines? If Carthage won't make peace, how about a raid to sack the capital (and pay for the mines)? Will you take Reggio, to put another bulwark in your eventual defence against Rome? Or will you leave it alone, to divide you and keep the peace? Perhaps you'd prefer to train up spies and try to make it rebel if Rome or Epiros take it. Eventually you'll take Italy, and then you'll be recruiting your pick of all sorts of units to conquer the world.

[Sdragon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't TA talk about factions that didn't quite make it in EB? Wasn't Massilia and the Bosporus Kingdom mentioned as almost had beens? I think I recall it being mentioned that each would have started with 2 provinces each and that made them desirable Still my memory isn't that great, perhaps I'm wrong.

Lets not forget that the unit limit is still at 500, the 10 new factions would either have to use a lot of units used by other factions. Have a limited unit set. Or pluck units from already done factions to make the room.

[Fondor_Yards]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?

Looking at screenshots and such, I thnk there's actually 3 per unit...

[Moros]

max amount of textures and models has increased a lot. Not sure about the actual number. However the amount of units in the export_descr_unit.txt hasn't, I believe.

[Ludens]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?

Yes, but in M2:TW is the number of models that is limiting.

[Krusader]

Yes, but in M2:TW is the number of models that is limiting.

I thought there was unlimited amount of models but 500 unit limit still as in RTW?

[Ludens]

I thought there was unlimited amount of models but 500 unit limit still as in RTW?

My apologies, I mixed up a couple of things.

[SethEng]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't TA talk about factions that didn't quite make it in EB? Wasn't Massilia and the Bosporus Kingdom mentioned as almost had beens? I think I recall it being mentioned that each would have started with 2 provinces each and that made them desirable Still my memory isn't that great, perhaps I'm wrong.

Lets not forget that the unit limit is still at 500, the 10 new factions would either have to use a lot of units used by other factions. Have a limited unit set. Or pluck units from already done factions to make the room.

Well, Massilia and Bosporus might be easier factions to do since they'd probably have a handful of unqiue units, but mostly be Hellenistic/Steppe or Hellenistic/Celtic. I could see Massilia have accessing to the common Western Greek units, maybe some mixed culture units, and probably more Gallic units than the other factions could recruit, maybe even the better armored, more professional units. More important is the Goverment 1/2 area. I could see Type 1s for the Greek cities in Gaul and Iberia, with Type 2s over Gaul and maybe Celtiberia. It would definately change the dynamic of Gaul and make for at the very least an interesting "what if" scenario.

[Casuir]

Looking at screenshots and such, I thnk there's actually 3 per unit...

Number of mesh variations is unlimited according to Caliban, you're basically limited to what you can fit on the two textures the model uses. A m2tw size texture uses up 16 times the memory of a rome sized texture though, so go overboard there and you'll have problems.

[hellenes]

Number of mesh variations is unlimited according to Caliban, you're basically limited to what you can fit on the two textures the model uses. A m2tw size texture uses up 16 times the memory of a rome sized texture though, so go overboard there and you'll have problems.

Well that depends on the size of your wallet...
A 8800GTX will run anything that you can throw on it...for €450 of course...

[Centurion Varricus]

Can I ask why the MTW2 engine appears to be preferred over the RTW:BI engine? What does it offer that BI cant?

[The Errant]

Can I ask why the MTW2 engine appears to be preferred over the RTW:BI engine? What does it offer that BI cant?

Better and more varied graphics (no more "clone" units). Slightly improved AI. Multiple unit recruitment from the same settlement per turn. Permanent forts (could be used to represent lesser cities or towns). The ability to mod unbreakable alliances. Economic warfare using merchants to control resources.

MTW2 is good. It could have been better had CA concentrated more on the improvement of the AI than just the graphics. Even so it is better than RTW-BI. Not as much as it could have, but enough to make it preferable to BI.

However if there was no room for improvement in MTW2 we wouldn't need the EB team to make it better. Thank god it's not perfect. With the team "tinkering" on it. I have no doubt EB2 will be suberb.

To get the full experience I'm afraid most of us with an older computer will seriously have to consider upgrading. And unfortunately there is no working background script to add the $$, ££ or €€ to your bankaccount.

[hellenes]

Better and more varied graphics (no more "clone" units). Slightly improved AI. Multiple unit recruitment from the same settlement per turn. Permanent forts (could be used to represent lesser cities or towns). The ability to mod unbreakable alliances. Economic warfare using merchants to control resources.

MTW2 is good. It could have been better had CA concentrated more on the improvement of the AI than just the graphics. Even so it is better than RTW-BI. Not as much as it could have, but enough to make it preferable to BI.

However if there was no room for improvement in MTW2 we wouldn't need the EB team to make it better. Thank god it's not perfect. With the team "tinkering" on it. I have no doubt EB2 will be suberb.

To get the full experience I'm afraid most of us with an older computer will seriously have to consider upgrading. And unfortunately there is no working background script to add the $$, ££ or €€ to your bankaccount.

Lets not forget the most important part:
Both the battle and campaignmap AIs are moddable...
I cant imagine what moster AI will the EB team pull out!!!

[Wolfman]

I still wish that CA could come up with a Multiplayer campaign. Imagine Historically roleplaying with that. And your enemys would be humans who can adapt to different situations realistically not like the current AI( Though I have to admit M2TW has much better AI then RTW).

[Alexander777]

I think a Massalian faction would be interesting. I'm most interested in an Eastern Germany/Western Steppe faction. Anyone know of any others farther north than Scythia or Bastarnae?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You guys feel free to talk about it as much as you like. We have decided on some of the factions and will still be deciding on some of the others, but we won't answer any questions about which ones are chosen (so don't try to weasel it out of us ) and we won't be giving any hints until you see those first new occultus sig banners coming out.

[Aramazon]

If you guys are already working on EB2 does that mean you've abandoned EB? I guess it would make sense, EB is really good as it is already.

[Wolfman]

Could you give us the number of how many factions are confirmed and how many slots are empty instead of the names?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

No, the only thing that is being worked on for EB2 is faction discussion and research (mainly for new factions). All tangible 'work' is for the RTW engine, still.

There are ten new faction slots. Five are probably in. Three more are most likely in. And an additional two are sort of in.

[temenid]

Massagetae.

The decoupling of unit recruitment and wealth in MTW2 will allow for more accurate simulation of the nomad factions. And what could be more fun than invading lands and eating old folk?

Mini-mods.

I'd love to fight the Mauryans. Elephants, rain and disease are three radically different factors that'd add significantly to the variety of the campaign. But I can also understand why the Mauryans simply won't fit into the main EB campaign.

[PSYCHO V]

I'm going to be accused of bias here, but the Germans and Hibernians didn’t have significant enough political entities to warrant additional factions on their behalf in this period. Further if such were to be done, it would have to be in a generic sense, which goes against EB’s modes operandi of depicting actual politics, eg. The Aedui confederacy / Arverni Alliance as opposed to an ahistorical generic ‘Gauls’, ‘Northern Gauls’, ‘Southern Gauls’, ‘Gallic Barbarians’, or some other such nomenclature.

Gaul (even with two tribes, it's still mostly rebel, and that's no fun when we can have yet another tribe thrown in...)

True, if further western barbs are to be considered, one could add the Belgae Confederacy under the Suessiones. This would include most of the Belgae and small parts of southern Briton.
The Boii (‘Strikers’) would also be a good choice with extensive land in southern Germany and northern Italy.
Even the Volcae (‘Wolves’) would add an interesting mix with lands in southern France, Asia Minor (Galati) and all over eastern Europe, though they’d not be easy to depict due to their political structure; tetrachal power sharing in triumvirates (three tribes).
The Celiberian ‘Arevaci Coalition’ would be a good addition in opposition to the Lusitani in Iberia / Spain, though some claim the name too similar to the Arverni.

The Gallic Brigantes would be good in mid-northern Briton.

Numidians would also be welcomed in Africa.

Cisalpine Gaul (they weren't united in the first place, and the strongest tribe is already represented as an ally of the Aedui.)
:

Yup, adding the Boii would certainly liven things up.


Just my2bob

[I Am Herenow]

You guys feel free to talk about it as much as you like. We have decided on some of the factions and will still be deciding on some of the others, but we won't answer any questions about which ones are chosen (so don't try to weasel it out of us ) and we won't be giving any hints until you see those first new occultus sig banners coming out.

I've already seen one (was wondering what that was) so it's OK for you to tell us now ;)



Anyway, guys, you were saying that M2 has 1 less max. provinces and same amount for max. diff. units as RTW, but are there any signs that Kingdoms might improve on either statistic?

PS

I think you should make Kingdoms a requirement for EB2, so that you can take advantage of all available features of M2. I mean, let's face it, just about everyone who has RTW has BI, right?

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Also, just out of curiosity, if you wanted to recreate the world in, say, 272 BC totally accurately historically (so including India, Japan, all of Africa [I assume] etc.), with all the provinces that existed and all factions with all units (that you know of, obviously) and alliances on a Total: War skeleton, how many (more) provinces, units and factions would you need?

In other words, what faction etc. caps would be sufficient to fully recreate the world in 272 BC?