Faction List for EB2?

[bobbin]

Did the "Casse" (I expect a name change, too) actually do this? Is there evidence of them interfering in continental politics?

They're the Catuvellauni of later times who Caeser accused of supporting the gauls and belgae in their wars with him.

That is no justification for a faction. In fact, if there's good naval invasions, it would be a plus to not have a faction, IMO. It will make it a prize to be contested over by the continental powers, and not just a money generating machine for whomever starts there.

It also makes any faction there more active on the continent and more open to invasion by continental powers which is essentaily fixes (hopefully) the main problems people have with the Casse (that they never seem to do anything beyond conquering britain and they never face any real threat from other factions).

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

What did the Catuvellauni accomplish?

Several factions accomplished very little and are yet included. KH springs to mind.

Factions are likely included based on historical importance, gameplay reasons, and unique flavor.

Casse have a small amount of historical importance, but for gameplay reasons they are important and they certainly add unique flavor due to heroic units and reliance on chariots instead of cavalry.

[lobf]

Several factions accomplished very little and are yet included. KH springs to mind.

Factions are likely included based on historical importance, gameplay reasons, and unique flavor.

Casse have a small amount of historical importance, but for gameplay reasons they are important and they certainly add unique flavor due to heroic units and reliance on chariots instead of cavalry.

Gameplay shouldn't and, in theory, isn't a consideration. By the team's admission in the past.

Not much beyond making life a little more difficult for Caeser in his Gallic wars, the point is they tried. As Brave Sir Robin says many factions already in EB didn't accomplish much, the reason they're in is because the had the ambition to conquer other lands.

By your own admission, their entire role in history was defensive, and they show up 100+ years after the start date.

I don't think there's any comparison between the Greek city-states and the B.C. tribes of England in term of cultural development, addition to the historical record, and influence in world politics.

[bobbin]

By your own admission, their entire role in history was defensive, and they show up 100+ years after the start date.

I never said their role was defensive, they were involved in wars away from their homelands helping their allies on the continent they didn't have to fight they chose to, thats a pretty agressive attitude in my eyes.

Maybe they're mentioned first by caeser but archeology no doubt attests to their presence long before that and IIRC the faction leader is mentioned in Goidelic legend (and supported by archeology) as conquering all of the south west of britain around the start date.

[lobf]

I never said their role was defensive, they were involved in wars away from their homelands helping their allies on the continent they didn't have to fight they chose to, thats a pretty agressive attitude in my eyes.

Interesting. Source?

Maybe they're mentioned first by caeser but archeology no doubt attests to their presence long before that and IIRC the faction leader is mentioned in Goidelic legend (and supported by archeology) as conquering all of the south west of britain around the start date.

Source for the Goidelic legend?

And certainly archaeology will attest to the presence of humans on the Isles. I'm contesting that they were a significant power at the time the game starts. Hell, even 100s of years later.

[ziegenpeter]

Hey lobf, it seems that many members of the .org consider it much more polite if your request for a source is a longer sentence.

[lobf]

Hey lobf, it seems that many members of the .org consider it much more polite if your request for a source is a longer sentence.

If you make a claim, be prepared to cite your evidence. I shouldn't need to charm you into having a proper discussion.

Source?

I didn't make a positive existential claim. I can't be asked to cite evidence to support that something didn't happen.

You'd have to ask someone from the team for that one too, I got it from the biography of the Casse faction leader (again I'm willing to trust them in this), I'm guessing its from one of the various Irish "Cycles" stories that cover the early history of ireland.

New here, are ye? :)

What do you mean you got it from the biography of one of the Casse leaders? You mean you heard it was from the biography of one of the Casse leaders?

A quick look gives:
Commentarii de Bello Gallico 3.9 Where Caeser mentions Britons joining the Veneti in their fight against him.
Commentarii de Bello Gallico 4.20 Mentions Caeser's reason for invading Britain, ie they were providing assistance to the Gauls.

I understand where you're going with this. Yes, they provided material assistance to the Gauls. On the other hand, Poland provides (or provided) material assistance to the US in Iraq. That doesn't make them a major world power. One doesn't necessarily follow the other.

Now i know this is all long after the start date but i imagine archeology testifies to similar things a lot further back in time. I'm no archeologist so i wouldn't know what sources were used but EB has team members who are so I'm willing to trust their decision in this matter.

It would just be nice if someone would come out and show us whatever evidence they have.

If ye are really that interested in lPRIA Britain, there are a couple of books you need to have a look at.

Iron Age Communities in Britain and Ireland, Barry Cunliffe. The bible.
An Imperial Possession, Mattingly. Excellent.
The Britons, Snyder. Very Good.
The Iron Age in Northern Britain, Harding
Prehistoric Britain, Darvill
Ancient Britain, Dyer
The Forts of Celtic Britain, Osprey

I have to say that the suggestion that 3rd BCE Britain is not prima facie worthy of at least one faction is totally ludicrous. Do some reading.

I would love to. I've been asking for something to look at for ages. That era and that part of the world fascinates me, I look forward to reading those.

Would you mind summarizing some of the main rationales behind their inclusion for me?

Even as early as 272 BCE, Graeco-Roman influence was becoming profound in Continental Celtic/Gallic societies. In Britain we have the chance to imagine a society with much less cultural adulteration. Also, the archaeological record is tremendously rich. Cissbury, Maiden Castle and Danebury are some of the largest multivalate hill forts in Europe. Hengtisbury Head was one of the busiest ports. Some of the best overall examples of Celtic craftwork, shields, helmets, swords and chariots come from Britain.

From what era?

The problem of course, is that the historical record does not begin until much later, so that we do not have a narrative to rely on for our story: but does that mean that we should abandon these people to the dustbin of history? In EB we are more inclined to take up the challenge and attempt to speak for history's silent people. All it takes is a little creativity.

I guess I'm worried that a very conjectured interpretation of these people will make it into the final product and be taken as gospel by the general public. I'd just like to understand what you are basing your recreation off of.

Re: the name. I won't tell you what we are going to do about that yet. 'Casse' is of course a guess, as we don't even have numismatic evidence for the period, but it is a very good guess nonetheless. The Cassi are one of the tribes mentioned by Caesar, who is basically our earliest textual source, and in addition 'Cassi' is an element in many other kinds of names. But there are some other possibilities. Anyone know what they might be?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Cassi



I'm at work, BTW, so this is kind of a rushed reply.

[Apázlinemjó]

And certainly archaeology will attest to the presence of humans on the Isles. I'm contesting that they were a significant power at the time the game starts. Hell, even 100s of years later.

Source?

[bobbin]

Interesting. Source?

A quick look gives:
Commentarii de Bello Gallico 3.9 Where Caeser mentions Britons joining the Veneti in their fight against him.
Commentarii de Bello Gallico 4.20 Mentions Caeser's reason for invading Britain, ie they were providing assistance to the Gauls.

Now i know this is all long after the start date but i imagine archeology testifies to similar things a lot further back in time. I'm no archeologist so i wouldn't know what sources were used but EB has team members who are so I'm willing to trust their decision in this matter.

Source for the Goidelic legend?

You'd have to ask someone from the team for that one too, I got it from the biography of the Casse faction leader (again I'm willing to trust them in this), I'm guessing its from one of the various Irish "Cycles" stories that cover the early history of ireland.

[Ludens]

You'd have to ask someone from the team for that one too, I got it from the biography of the Casse faction leader (again I'm willing to trust them in this), I'm guessing its from one of the various Irish "Cycles" stories that cover the early history of ireland.

I think this one of those bits of EB for which the sources could not be found. A lot of the team's early Celtic material hasn't been properly referenced, so the team decided to redo most or all Celtic material for EB2.