EB poll of '300'

**Spoofa** · 03-20-2007, 00:19

its either going to be excellent, or horrible (whatever the last choice is...) i doubt there will be too many 'average' votes.

**Xtiaan72** · 03-20-2007, 00:24

It's a 30 day poll so everybody has some time to vote if they have'nt seen it.

**Suraknar** · 03-20-2007, 00:33

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

**Teleklos Archelaou** · 03-20-2007, 01:42

Originally Posted by Suraknar

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

Wow, that is a very effective way of totally dismissing any opposition to your argument/opinion. "Sure, you can say it was a bad movie, but you're closed minded if you do." Downside is that there are other points of view than yours, upside is that you sleep well at night knowing those who disagree with you are just closed minded.

**Urnamma** · 03-20-2007, 02:00

Originally Posted by Suraknar

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

This is the standard leftie academic response ;) If you don't agree with our position, then you're a horrible person undeserving of terrestrial happiness.

All educated people accept my idea.
You do not.
Ergo, you are not educated.

Hmm, kinda seems like a fallacy, I wonder which one it is!

**Watchman** · 03-20-2007, 02:01

I recall seeing it used often enough outside "leftie" circles as well. Why do you hate freedom ?

**Xtiaan72** · 03-20-2007, 02:20

it all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

Come on! Saying the movie is pure entertainment and not a historical film is not true. You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject. So by basing it on a historical event and then distorting that event to the point of mockery, they do their target audience a dis-service.

**Suraknar** · 03-20-2007, 02:28

Originally Posted by Xtiaan72

Come on! Saying the movie is pure entertainment and not a historical film is not true. You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject. So by basing it on a historical event and then distorting that event to the point of mockery, they do their target audience a dis-service.

Wow, the best argument in repsonse to the provocative reply ;)

I agree with you friend,

You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject.

That is exactly the problem we should be evaluating here. We see our kids being disinterested of real history and instead prefer the sensationalism that movies offer, and seeing that, we try to turn movies, an entertainment medium, in to education.

Instead of, using this to incite our kids to take a closer look at History and its available medium.

We are all trying to kill the messenger because he presents the message in his own view, instead of taking the little effort to inform the audiance of the real message.

Think about it :)

**KARTLOS** · 03-21-2007, 05:25

Originally Posted by Xtiaan72

Come on! Saying the movie is pure entertainment and not a historical film is not true. You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject. So by basing it on a historical event and then distorting that event to the point of mockery, they do their target audience a dis-service.

it is a a graphic novel adaptation, the film was striving to be a faithful representation of the graphic novel rather than a "historical" film. In this aim they were deffinately successful.

the historical element only comes in indirectly, as in the fact that it was based on a graphical novel which was loosely based on a historical event.

frank miller certainly wasnt attempting to portray history accurately, and I believe he says soemthing along those lines in the indtroduction to the graphic novel. He was more intersted in certain ideas and concepts which appealed to him, and he amplified those to make a intersting/entertaining graphic novel.

**fallen851** · 03-20-2007, 03:27

Originally Posted by Urnamma

This is the standard leftie academic response ;) If you don't agree with our position, then you're a horrible person undeserving of terrestrial happiness.

All educated people accept my idea.
You do not.
Ergo, you are not educated.

Hmm, kinda seems like a fallacy, I wonder which one it is!

Now I could say "This is the standard right wing argument", but that would be ignorant.

Don't you see you are doing exactly the same thing he is?

The "standard" liberal and Christian response to one who disagree is sadness. Sadness that they have to suffer in their situation, and that they are hurt. Instead of hating the person, you want to help them, not to understand your point of view, but help them live better, because your actions speak louder than your words.

**Urnamma** · 03-20-2007, 18:25

Originally Posted by fallen851

Now I could say "This is the standard right wing argument", but that would be ignorant.

Don't you see you are doing exactly the same thing he is?

The "standard" liberal and Christian response to one who disagree is sadness. Sadness that they have to suffer in their situation, and that they are hurt. Instead of hating the person, you want to help them, not to understand your point of view, but help them live better, because your actions speak louder than your words.

Heh. I take it you're American, or possibly British. Liberal in the rest of the world does not mean Socialist like it does in the U.S.

In any case, that's not the debate that I would get into here, in a thread about a movie. However, arguments appealing to emotion and fallacious patterns of reasoning are extremely common today, especially in academia outside the Philosophy circuit.

However, your argument is quite silly as well. Let's rephrase it.

Sallie Logos: I believe that I have a right to my sword collection.
Johnny Pathos: I feel sad for you.
SL: Why on earth would you feel sad for me?
JP: Because you don't understand how many people you're hurting by owning that sword collection.
SL: That's rediculous, I'm not hurting anyone.
JP: Don't get angry. I feel compassion for you. I want to help you. You must give up your property for the good of everyone. It'll make you happy.
SL: My statement still stands. I am not harming anyone by...

Retort Option 1:
JP: But (insert x) thinks that you are, and I believe (x) because (gender pronoun) is a great (gender pronoun).

Retort Option 2:
JP: But I feel that you're wrong. Ergo, I'm going to make blood spattered signs and try to shut down sword companies, and give you emotionally moralistic rhetoric until you give in.

Retort Option 3 (The Soviet Option):
JP: Give in to me. The dialectic says I'm right. I will kill you and put your children in a reeducat... fun camp. In Siberia.

**Urnamma** · 03-20-2007, 18:30

And note, I really have nothing against people putting out whatever they want, regardless of the fact that it's garbage. I'm not one of those people who bitch at others for watching television, I simply refuse to do so myself (unless it is an HBO original series, or a few other exceptions).

My opinion is that 300 was a piece of overly vile drivel that depicted Persians in an offensive manner. Does that mean we should run around with torches and scream 'rabble' until it is removed from view? Of course not. Propaganda, subtle or not, is part of every film. Most filmmakers want you to believe the message they put into their work, and most put a discernable message into it. However, I suspect that if Jews, folks of African descent, etc were depicted the way Persians were, many of you crying out for the validity of art would suddenly call it evil racism. That, my friends, is hypocrisy.