EB poll of '300'

[Xtiaan72]

Is '300" a good film?

[Boyar Son]

HAHA! 1st vote= 100%

[Xtiaan72]

Well, my vote will fix that! EB's a tough crowd, I've got a feeling I know how this is going to play out!

[Spoofa]

its either going to be excellent, or horrible (whatever the last choice is...) i doubt there will be too many 'average' votes.

[Xtiaan72]

It's a 30 day poll so everybody has some time to vote if they have'nt seen it.

[Suraknar]

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

[Incongruous]

Well, my vote will fix that! EB's a tough crowd, I've got a feeling I know how this is going to play out!

Haha...
Oh dear, I feel this will turn into a cancerous form of the Backroom

[Teleklos Archelaou]

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

Wow, that is a very effective way of totally dismissing any opposition to your argument/opinion. "Sure, you can say it was a bad movie, but you're closed minded if you do." Downside is that there are other points of view than yours, upside is that you sleep well at night knowing those who disagree with you are just closed minded.

[Urnamma]

It all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

This is the standard leftie academic response ;) If you don't agree with our position, then you're a horrible person undeserving of terrestrial happiness.

All educated people accept my idea.
You do not.
Ergo, you are not educated.

Hmm, kinda seems like a fallacy, I wonder which one it is!

[Watchman]

I recall seeing it used often enough outside "leftie" circles as well. Why do you hate freedom ?

[Xtiaan72]

it all depends how one is open minded or not imo.

Because it is not a historical Film, yet it is an entertaining movie.

So if one is capable of watching it for what it is you will lke it. If one's view is "stuck" in to a certain frame of mind you will most probably not like it.

Come on! Saying the movie is pure entertainment and not a historical film is not true. You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject. So by basing it on a historical event and then distorting that event to the point of mockery, they do their target audience a dis-service.

[Suraknar]

Come on! Saying the movie is pure entertainment and not a historical film is not true. You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject. So by basing it on a historical event and then distorting that event to the point of mockery, they do their target audience a dis-service.

Wow, the best argument in repsonse to the provocative reply ;)

I agree with you friend,

You know that for many kids, going out to see this movie is as close as they will ever get to opening a history book on the subject.

That is exactly the problem we should be evaluating here. We see our kids being disinterested of real history and instead prefer the sensationalism that movies offer, and seeing that, we try to turn movies, an entertainment medium, in to education.

Instead of, using this to incite our kids to take a closer look at History and its available medium.

We are all trying to kill the messenger because he presents the message in his own view, instead of taking the little effort to inform the audiance of the real message.

Think about it :)

[Watchman]

I think our opinions concerning the "real message" here do not quite match.

[Xtiaan72]

I think anyone with a keen enough interest in history, like people who post here, would pass on that curiosity to their kids. It's not those kids I'm worried about. It's the other kids running around thinking that 'Spartans' were great defenders of freedom and that The Persian Empire was ruled by evil monsters that ate their own young. It has the potential to spread bigotry and wrong headedness, that's all I'm saying. Not because it's entertainment but because they chose a historical event to frame their entertainment.

[Suraknar]

I think our opinions concerning the "real message" here do not quite match.

Yet, I am starting to think that we both aim the same end, even if the means may differ ;)

[Watchman]

I'm personally much too cynical about people to consider the movie in terms other than what Xtiaan just explained, and fully assume it to be intentionally so.

Well, with good old-fashioned profiteering thrown in of course. What'd the world come to if someone didn't make a killing out of dodgy populism ?

[Suraknar]

I think anyone with a keen enough interest in history, like people who post here, would pass on that curiosity to their kids. It's not those kids I'm worried about. It's the other kids running around thinking that 'Spartans' were great defenders of freedom and that The Persian Empire was ruled by evil monsters that ate their own young. It has the potential to spread bigotry and wrong headedness, that's all I'm saying. Not because it's entertainment but because they chose a historical event to frame their entertainment.

Very Good points, really. And I agree aswell with your view on it.

But permit me please to also ask, what is the root of the problem here?

Why are there kids that run around dissinformed about the Spartans and the Persian Empire? Why cant these kids be more like the kids of those who post here?

See for me the root problem is not the movie or the way movies and artists choose to interpret them. For me the problem is that somewhere allong the line we failed to inform all kids to discern between entertainment and history.

And changing the way or imposing rules on the way movies are made or categorising movies between good & bad from an ethical point of view, will not solve the root problem, which resides with those kids and how we educate them to be able to make the distinction on their own.

I think it would be better to use such movies to incite interest for the real history rather than supress them.

[Watchman]

Sorry Sur, but I'm smelling red herrings now. The general quality of education is not the issue here; the questionable underlying values and messages of the movie are.

[Suraknar]

What is Red Herrings?

English is not my first language, I dont always understand some expressions, jokes and what not. I am from Quebec.

[antisocialmunky]

The movie had about as much substance as a gutted house. Pretty on the outside, but there isn't much to think about if you look any deeper than that.

It was subpar but pretty.

BTW- What was up with the goat? Seriously? Why?

[Watchman]

An attempt to dodge the argument by changing the subject to something peripheral if not outright irrelevant.

Also, see Wiki for a decent enough defition.

[fallen851]

This is the standard leftie academic response ;) If you don't agree with our position, then you're a horrible person undeserving of terrestrial happiness.

All educated people accept my idea.
You do not.
Ergo, you are not educated.

Hmm, kinda seems like a fallacy, I wonder which one it is!

Now I could say "This is the standard right wing argument", but that would be ignorant.

Don't you see you are doing exactly the same thing he is?

The "standard" liberal and Christian response to one who disagree is sadness. Sadness that they have to suffer in their situation, and that they are hurt. Instead of hating the person, you want to help them, not to understand your point of view, but help them live better, because your actions speak louder than your words.

[Suraknar]

As for the rest, well, for me the general quality of education is an issue here.

I dont expect movies to educate as much as Ancient Greeks sent their kids to the amphitheater to educate themselves from Tragedies. They did not...did they know better than our modern habits?

[Watchman]

It's a bonus if a movie is actually educational. Not being disturbingly and populistically propagandist, however, is pretty much obligatory as far as I'm concerned.

[Suraknar]

An attempt to dodge the argument by changing the subject to something peripheral if not outright irrelevant.

Also, see Wiki for a decent enough defition.

Ahh I see :) Thank you for explaining that.

Well, I am bringing up this line of argumentation because I see it as relevant to the current topic, which critisise a movie.

Yet, I think, we all here understand, that a movie is suposed to be entertainment, not education.

Yet the core of the arguments brought to critisise the movie are of educational nature. We dont like this movie because its educational value is not correct.

I am simply arguing that, it is not the movie that should be blaimed for its educational value, but rather that the problem is elsewear.

How is that dodging the the argument? I am making a counter argument in line with the the topic.

[Watchman]

Yet the core of the arguments brought to critisise the movie are of educational nature. We dont like this movie because its educational value is not correct.

I will not vouch for others, but I hate it for its propagandistic nature. Were it not for that I could deal with the mere proliferation of historical inaccuracies, albeit with some suffering groans.

There is, however, a line between mere inaccuracy and bad taste, and outright pungent populist BS with an agenda.

[Suraknar]

I will not vouch for others, but I hate it for its propagandistic nature. Were it not for that I could deal with the mere proliferation of historical inaccuracies, albeit with some suffering groans.

There is, however, a line between mere inaccuracy and bad taste, and outright pungent populist BS with an agenda.

Aha, ok.

Well, the "Interview" of Miller, in the other 300 thread spoke tons about his propagandist bias. So yes I agree wholeheartedly on the propaganda nature without argument.

The best weapon to counter propaganda is being informed, which most often than not comes from education.

Converselly, in terms of educational correctness however, I still argue that a movie shant be expected to be so. And that if we want our kids to avoid being victims of propaganda, it is through education that this can be achieved.

I much more favor the approach of talking about the truth rather than denying anything that is reputed to be untrue.

Only thus we can effectivelly prevent propaganda victims, inform and let the individual discern for themselves rather than place walls and try to guide someone in the ethical labyrinth.

Show how to fish rather than just give the fish, in other words.

[Watchman]

And how exactly is that supposed to be actually done in practice, nevermind to the degree that would even begin to match the spread of rank tendentious garbage achieved by this blockbuster movie that so succesfully appeals to the primal urges and encourages the audience to switch off their higher faculties ?

That is specifically why I so loathe this kind of macho populism in entertainment. It's like a weed - spreads fast and wide, and is an imperial pain to get rid of should that even be possible.

[Suraknar]

And how exactly is that supposed to be actually done in practice, nevermind to the degree that would even begin to match the spread of rank tendentious garbage achieved by this blockbuster movie that so succesfully appeals to the primal urges and encourages the audience to switch off their higher faculties ?

That is specifically why I so loathe this kind of macho populism in entertainment. It's like a weed - spreads fast and wide, and is an imperial pain to get rid of should that even be possible.

Yes I understand your position.

And answering to your question will detract the original topic. So I shall...digress for now, leaving what has been said thus far, as food for thought.

EDIT: I will only say this, we do live in Democratic Countries, there are democratic means available.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

And how exactly is that supposed to be actually done in practice, nevermind to the degree that would even begin to match the spread of rank tendentious garbage achieved by this blockbuster movie that so succesfully appeals to the primal urges and encourages the audience to switch off their higher faculties ?

That is specifically why I so loathe this kind of macho populism in entertainment. It's like a weed - spreads fast and wide, and is an imperial pain to get rid of should that even be possible.

Well if you dont believe education is the way, I can assure you censorship isn't.

LOL Suraknar, now I see why you liked my post on the other thread about 300 hehe.