Two Worlds in Germany

[Blodrast]

What make you think that I am a heathen ?
Is it because I rip the piss out of those who loudly call themselves "Christian" here?

Tribesy, you rip the out of everybody and their mother (all the time, too). That's why we love you, 'cause you don't discriminate.
And he probably meant atheist, not heathen. Although, he may have meant heathen, but in an affectionate way.

[Husar]

What make you think that I am a heathen ?

Your replies in religious threads.
But I used that word in a humorous way, just so you know.

Is it because I rip the out of those who loudly call themselves "Christian" here?

I also love the way Banquo edits.
I call myself christian here but cannot remember any ripping or such a thing.
What I wanted to say is that just because I'M christian I do not support anyone who calls himself that and at times I prefer the opinion of an atheist.
And in your given example, I prefered your position than that of people who beat their women.
And I somehow like your style, you're lucky I didn't open a Tribesman-fanclub-thread yet.

But I think we're drifting off topic here, this was about evil muslim jihadists who want to take over my country and need to be stopped with the full force of the law.

[Tribesman]

I call myself christian here but cannot remember any ripping or such a thing.

Ah but you don't call yourself a Christian loudly here do you .

[Husar]

Ah but you don't call yourself a Christian loudly here do you .

I'm getting louder and louder, especially in this thread.

[Fragony]

Isn't this where I get to do my told-you-so dance?

goes like this,

tooooooooold youuuuuuuu sooooooooooooooo

[Kralizec]

The silly thing is that this judge only believes that she is doing something "good" for muslims. At least in this case I am pretty sure that one of the two muslims that are affacted is angry anyway and I have my doubts that such a "judgement" pleases the majority of muslims in Germany.
This judge is trying to be "holier than the pope" (or in this case "more islamic than the muslims") and is making a complete fool of herself

EDIT to add: Apart from that the judge nurtures the prejudice that muslim husbands like to beat up their wifes ... I guess muslims in Germany are really grateful for this "favor"

I just read about this in my newspaper. Holy poop - "if you marry someone in Morocco, you should expect to get beaten occasionally"

[Adrian II]

I just read about this in my newspaper. Holy poop - "if you marry someone in Morocco, you should expect to get beaten occasionally"

I you are a stupid judge in Germany, you should expect to get sacked. Tarred and feathered. Chased out of town. On the back of a mule. Backwards. All the way to Morocco. Occasionally.

[Fragony]

Was a native judge I believe, probably wanted to be nominated for the most prestigious honor there is, the Dhimmi award. Is a new breed, knows exactly what muslims want before even they realise they want it themselves.

[Husar]

Was a native judge I believe, probably wanted to be nominated for the most prestigious honor there is, the Dhimmi award. Is a new breed, knows exactly what muslims want before even they realise they want it themselves.

I'm afraid of that new breed, but it could explain why some court rulings are very wise(old judges?) while others are like this one(young judges?).
Maybe there is a point where we should stop feeding our kids with liberalism before they start thinking that murder should be tolerated by society.

[Fragony]

I'm afraid of that new breed, but it could explain why some court rulings are very wise(old judges?) while others are like this one(young judges?).

The old ones probably realise that change isn't necesarily always for the better. The others, a train without a brake.

[KukriKhan]

Which prompts the question(s) from an ignorant Yank: How are judges selected in Germany? Election? Appointment? By whom? For how long? How do you get rid of one?

[Husar]

Which prompts the question(s) from an ignorant Yank: How are judges selected in Germany? Election? Appointment? By whom? For how long? How do you get rid of one?

I have no idea, never even been in a courtroom myself.
I was wondering that as well while writing my last post, may want to look it up somewhen, but I guess another member might have a lot more insight on that.

[Haudegen]

How are judges selected in Germany? Election? Appointment? By whom? For how long? How do you get rid of one?

Well that depends. There are different procedures in every state of Germany. But generally speaking, judges are appointed by the regional Department of Justice or a committee, which consists of some members of the regional parliament. Judges are appointed for a testing period which lasts 3 years, IIRC. After that they are appointed for lifetime if they have proven themselves. Once a judge reaches this point he has a quite strong position, because he can only get fired if he commits serious crimes. Judges are generally subject to disciplinarian sanctions. But this thing is very limited due to the fact that judges are granted independence in their job.

[KukriKhan]

Thank you, Haudegen. I also found this, a (long) explanation of Germany's Justice System, produced by the US Dept of Justice. Fascinating info, with background on the legal philosophies used, down to police training & equipment.

It looks like, in no case in Germany, are Judges elected by the everyday voters (we do that in many, but not all places), but rather by specialized commitees. So firing one who has passed his/her internship period, would be a very difficult task, as you say. And over-ruling a lower judge's decision in a case would take considerable effort to get elevated to the Federal Constitutional Court. Lots o' power those folks have.

[Goofball]

I'm afraid of that new breed, but it could explain why some court rulings are very wise(old judges?) while others are like this one(young judges?).
Maybe there is a point where we should stop feeding our kids with liberalism before they start thinking that murder should be tolerated by society.

I'll bite.

How does liberalism promote tolerance of murder in society?

[Crazed Rabbit]

Here's a video for you Goofball, highlighting how modern liberal thought always follows the path that leads to bad results*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c

A bit long.

Somewhat applicable to the original post, if I say so myself.

Crazed Rabbit
*I'm not saying I necessarily agree with liberalism promotes murder, but there might be some good arguments for it.

[Kralizec]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

I don't see how the original promotes murder, though.

[Lemur]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

I don't see how the original promotes murder, though.

And here we get into the use and abuse of the words "liberal" and "conservative," both of which are applied to movements that have nothing to do with the terms they use to label themselves. From your lovely Wiki link:

Beginning in the late nineteenth century, and especially after 1930 in the United States, the term liberalism came to be associated with a very different emphasisis, particularly in economic policy. It came to be associated with a readiness to rely primarily on the state rather than on private voluntary arrangements to achieve objectives regarded as desirable. The catchwords became welfare and equality rather than freedom. The nineteenth century liberal regarded an extension of freedom as the most effective way to promote welfare and equality; the twentieth century liberal regards welfare and equality as either prerequisistes of or alternatives to freedom. In the name of welfare and equality, the twentieth-century liberal has come to favor a revival of the very policies of state intervention and paternalism against which classical liberalism fought. In the very act of turning the clock back to seventeenth-century mercantalism, he is fond of castigating true liberals as reactionary!

—Milton Friedman

And don't get me started on how unconservative the American conservative movement is ...

[Kralizec]

Of course, that bit of text is US-centric and Husar is German.

Since the "New Right" reared its head "conservatism" has changed radically

[Goofball]

Here's a video for you Goofball, highlighting how modern liberal thought always follows the path that leads to bad results*:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaE98w1KZ-c

A bit long.

Somewhat applicable to the original post, if I say so myself.

Crazed Rabbit
*I'm not saying I necessarily agree with liberalism promotes murder, but there might be some good arguments for it.

I don't know why, but on my office computer I can never get sound with YouTube video (weird, because I get sound with everything else), so I am unable to watch the video right now. However, I also note that it's 45 minutes long, so I probably won't bother watching it when I get home, either. Perhaps you can give me a précis?

[Husar]

To me it's:

conservatism: from to conserve or conservare in latin IIRC, meaning old-fashioned, trying to keep old morals and generally trying to keep almost everything "the way it has always been" or "like in the good old times"

liberalism: coming from to liberate, to set someone free, liber means free in latin so liberalism means to be open-minded and open to new things, striving for as much freedom as possible

Now these are my definitions which I just wrote down out of my mind and reflect a second of thought and remembering what I think about them.
I think in some cases they fit in nicely with how they are used here but I tend to use them very seldom myself, because I am both depending on topic and sometimes mood and I try not to put others into drawers as we say here.

Probably because I myself am like this, I think a balance between the two is the way to go and wise decisions have to be made. Being open to new things is good in many regards but IMO there is a point where the whole thing can turn into the negative and that is where liberalism should stop. IT's a hard decision to take and for me as a christian it's often a question of, how liberal would Jesus be? Would he turn the other cheek to radical muslim terrorists or would he support to fight them to dave many innocent lives? Can a soldier be a christian and kill other people? Well, I'm often happy that I'm not the one to decide, I don't have an answer on those questions, but I think throwing radical people out of the country is neither liberal nor conservative, we just show them if they want to live in our little economic paradise, they have to follow the rules or go somewhere where their views are not against the constitution.

My views for tonight and thanks for reading.

[Goofball]

To me it's:

conservatism: from to conserve or conservare in latin IIRC, meaning old-fashioned, trying to keep old morals and generally trying to keep almost everything "the way it has always been" or "like in the good old times"

liberalism: coming from to liberate, to set someone free, liber means free in latin so liberalism means to be open-minded and open to new things, striving for as much freedom as possible

Now these are my definitions which I just wrote down out of my mind and reflect a second of thought and remembering what I think about them.
I think in some cases they fit in nicely with how they are used here but I tend to use them very seldom myself, because I am both depending on topic and sometimes mood and I try not to put others into drawers as we say here.

Probably because I myself am like this, I think a balance between the two is the way to go and wise decisions have to be made. Being open to new things is good in many regards but IMO there is a point where the whole thing can turn into the negative and that is where liberalism should stop. IT's a hard decision to take and for me as a christian it's often a question of, how liberal would Jesus be? Would he turn the other cheek to radical muslim terrorists or would he support to fight them to dave many innocent lives? Can a soldier be a christian and kill other people? Well, I'm often happy that I'm not the one to decide, I don't have an answer on those questions, but I think throwing radical people out of the country is neither liberal nor conservative, we just show them if they want to live in our little economic paradise, they have to follow the rules or go somewhere where their views are not against the constitution.

My views for tonight and thanks for reading.

Given the subject of this discussion and the screen name of one of our more colorful posters here at the .Org, I find that typo to be very telling...

[Crazed Rabbit]

Goofball;
In brief, modern liberalism is the belief that wars, poverty, all bad human stuff, suffering, etc, comes from various parties believing they had the right way to solve problems. The solution, to them, is therefore to assume there is no right way, to assume anyone who says there is a right way is a supporter of human suffering. They also refuse to discriminate - that is, choose logically between different options - meaning no one is better than anyone else (see, perhaps, the Iranian thread).
An example he uses is an extension of kindergarten thought - do not hit becomes never wage war. They do not allow exceptions, basing their view on the cut and dried kindergarten version with bigger words.

I've not done the speaker justice with my brief synopsis, but that's kind of the idea. I would recommend watching it.

Crazed Rabbit

[Goofball]

Goofball;
In brief, modern liberalism is the belief that wars, poverty, all bad human stuff, suffering, etc, comes from various parties believing they had the right way to solve problems. The solution, to them, is therefore to assume there is no right way, to assume anyone who says there is a right way is a supporter of human suffering. They also refuse to discriminate - that is, choose logically between different options - meaning no one is better than anyone else (see, perhaps, the Iranian thread).
An example he uses is an extension of kindergarten thought - do not hit becomes never wage war. They do not allow exceptions, basing their view on the cut and dried kindergarten version with bigger words.

I've not done the speaker justice with my brief synopsis, but that's kind of the idea. I would recommend watching it.

Crazed Rabbit

That's where things really fall apart with that definition of liberalism. If that were really true, liberals would implicitly be acknowledging that (for example) the hard core Christian conservative way of doing things was just as good a way of doing things as any other.

See the fallacy there?

[Husar]

Given the subject of this discussion and the screen name of one of our more colorful posters here at the .Org, I find that typo to be very telling...

I'll leave it there just for you.