abortion clarification

[Ironside]

An earlier poster -- Ironside? -- implied that a majority of conceptions do not result in the production of an adult human. I can only speak for the United States, but that is not accurate. Discounting abortion, Doctors estimate that about 1 conception in 3 fails to result in a birth (miscarriage, failure to implant, etc.) A very small percentage die during the birthing process. Another small percentage die from some illness or accident prior to adulthood. While this number is significant, it is not, however, a majority.

Any links on it? My google skills aren't good enough to get anything else than that it's hard to get an accurate estimation and the original source I've red is a few years old.

Still, my original statement stands.

As for abortion information (only to make people having something to debate on and compare). It seems that it's slghtly less abortion in the US compared to Sweden (1,3 million abortions to 4 million births vs 35k and 105k). Sweden is considerbly higher (6-10% higher of total pregnacies) in that category compared to it's Scandinavian neighbours by some reason. The percentage is stable in Sweden, been around that since abortions became legal. It's slightly decreasing in the US.

Going from this link for US info (do you have a bureu that handles handles all kind stastistical information in the US? I miss SCB when I search US info). Facts on Induced Abortion in the United States

Teenage abortions is about the same of the total, 19% in the US, 19,8% in Sweden.

The number of repeated abortions are lower in Sweden 37,3% vs 48%.

The time of abortion also got a noticable difference, 93% of all abortions in Sweden is done before week 11, while it's 78,5% in the US. 18 weeks of free abortion, after that you'll need to

Swedish source here if anyone care (in Swedish) Aborter 2005

[HoreTore]

Well, swedish women don't know when to spit or swallow anyway, so they're not really a good comparison....

And Banqou's Ghost, whether or not a fetus is alive, depends how you define life. If you compare it to say a flower, then yes, it is life. However, if you add in things like a soul/spirit/whatever as a prerequisite for (human) life, then things are no longer clear. And the debate should be about the latter, if it is only life in the manner of a flower, then surely it is no worse to kill it than said flower?

You even have support from religous books. I think it was the Quran who stated that a fetus doesn't get a soul/spirit/essence/whatever until the 3. or 4. month of pregnancy... So following that, having abortions before that time is no problem at all, since you're not killing anything, you're simply removing a fetus.

[ajaxfetish]

And Banqou's Ghost, whether or not a fetus is alive, depends how you define life. If you compare it to say a flower, then yes, it is life. However, if you add in things like a soul/spirit/whatever as a prerequisite for (human) life, then things are no longer clear. And the debate should be about the latter, if it is only life in the manner of a flower, then surely it is no worse to kill it than said flower?

You even have support from religous books. I think it was the Quran who stated that a fetus doesn't get a soul/spirit/essence/whatever until the 3. or 4. month of pregnancy... So following that, having abortions before that time is no problem at all, since you're not killing anything, you're simply removing a fetus.

And there you've finally hit on the crux of the issue. When does life begin? When are we talking about a mass of tissue, and when are we talking about a human being? When does a child start to have rights, including the right to life? If everyone agreed on the answers to this question, the abortion issue wouldn't be very complicated. You seem to see this moment as the moment of birth. Others see it as the moment of conception. Others see it somewhere in between. If you had a different view of when life begins, all your other principles could remain the same and you'd still have a very different opinion on abortion. I personally don't know what to think on this one.

Ajax

[HoreTore]

And there you've finally hit on the crux of the issue. When does life begin? When are we talking about a mass of tissue, and when are we talking about a human being? When does a child start to have rights, including the right to life? If everyone agreed on the answers to this question, the abortion issue wouldn't be very complicated. You seem to see this moment as the moment of birth. Others see it as the moment of conception. Others see it somewhere in between. If you had a different view of when life begins, all your other principles could remain the same and you'd still have a very different opinion on abortion. I personally don't know what to think on this one.

Ajax

Couldn't agree more.

That's why I'm promoting a very liberal view here. By allowing abortions, you are not discriminating those that feel live begins at conception, however, if you do not allow it, you discriminate those who feel that life begins at birth, or somewhere in between.