Italian Power: Facts?

[dumas]

It occurred to me that in the game, if all the Italian factions came together (Venice, Milan, Papal States, Sicily), it would be as strong as the Roman Empire itself at the beginning of expansion, and capable of expanding just like the Roman Empire did. I know it's only a game but I wonder: historically, did Italians remain that strong after a millenia since the Romans?

Speaking of game vs. realism, why is Florence in rebel hands in the beginning and completely undeveloped? I remember reading somewhere that Florence was developed since the Roman days and continued being an advanced city until this day. I guess it was for game balance issues, but it's too far a stretch to believe that there aren't even dirt roads in Florence.

[napoleon526]

Italy was chaos for most of the middle ages. Large northern Italian cities like Milan, Venice, Genoa, Pisa, Florence, Bologna, and Siena all were run by oligarchies representing the cities' commercial interests. In the south Naples and Sicily were a united monarchy, just as is represented in the game. Italy had wealth due to extensive trade, but politically it was hopelessly fragmented. Occasionally the cities would join together to fight France, the HRE or Papal forces, but mostly they just plotted against each other.

Unlike the sentiment that was developing in France and England at the time, there wasn't a movement among all Italian-speaking people to begin seeing themselves as a distinct nation (the same situation existed in Germany). That would have to wait until the 19th century.

[MilesGregarius]

...but mostly they just plotted against each other.

Not only did they plot against each other, they were often divided internally. The rivalry between the Guelphs (anti-HRE party) and the Ghibellines (anti-Papacy party), and later between Black and White Guelphs, just added to the turmoil caused by the fractured nature of the northern Italian political scene.

There were also many more independent actors than shown in the game. Not only did Milan, Genoa, Florence, Bologna, and Venice jealously guard there independence, dozens of other lesser lights did the same. (Northern Italy alone could make for an interesting VI-style expansion; throw in more cities - Mantua, Brescia, Spoleto, Piacenza, et cetera - as factions and as rebels, use the religious system to represent the Guelph/Ghibelline split, and have the Papacy/HRE/France/Spain show up and wreak periodic havoc as emergent factions; mod anyone?).

Add to this the fact that the Emperor and the Pope both actively vied with each other for influence over the various ciy-states, and it's no wonder that there was no unity, and thus no real power, until the 19th Century.

Speaking of game vs. realism, why is Florence in rebel hands in the beginning and completely undeveloped?

As for Florence being a rebel city, beyond game balance issues, it was one of the most torn between Guelph and Ghibelline, so the thinking might be that making it rebel would represent this internal conflict.