Troops that make a difference.

[Didz]

Which unit do you think makes the biggest difference between victory and defeat?

My own top choice are Mercenary Crossbowmen, they are the first units I purchase in any campaign I can get hold of them in and I hire just about every unit I come across during play. They completely outclass most of the early archer units and mean that early seiges just become a case of 'shooting fish in a barrel' or more accurately 'spearmen in a town square'.

[Quillan]

It probably varies depending on faction. Merc crossbowmen for a western faction is a good choice; it's probably the first missile unit with long range you'd have access to. Musketeers are another for the factions that get them. All forms of horse archers for the eastern factions.

[Frederick_I_Barbarossa]

This varies widely by faction...for the major European factions I suggest the following:

England: Longbowmen...they litterally own anything within range and are amazing when placed upon a wall

France: Feudal knights...nuff said...without these Milan will simply march to Paris

Milan: Pavise crossbows...this is how you deal with France's Feudals

Spain: Jinetes...early in the game you have to know how to deal with Moors...

HRE: Gothic Knights...the shock & awe of pre-Renaissance Europe

Venice: again, the crossbows...

Russia: yet to find a critical unit for this faction...

Byzantium: anything riding a horse and holding a bow...

Just my 2 cents, but there it is...

[Odin]

Russia: yet to find a critical unit for this faction...

Boyar Sons. While not critical to the Russians, those Javelins can wreck absolute havoc on infantry.

[pike master]

for me once i get to recruit pikes or halberdiers the game kicks in overdrive as well as when gunpowder artillery becomes available

[HoreTore]

The turks: Janissary Heavy Infantry. Once you get them, you can happily abandon your old horsey ways, and crush anything in your way.

[dismal]

Nothing changes battles like heavy cav.

In particular the General's Bodyguard, and even more so if you're talking about one of those 10 dread Mongol general's bodyguards.

Those boys sure make a difference when your whole army screams and runs away from them.

[Specky the Mad]

i think those bloody elephants are the most battle changing unit as if you are not prepared for them they are almost unstoppable, or the naffatun (sp?) can turn the tide of a battle when used strategically.

[dismal]

i think those bloody elephants are the most battle changing unit as if you are not prepared for them they are almost unstoppable, or the naffatun (sp?) can turn the tide of a battle when used strategically.

Well, yeah, elephants almost belong in a different category. When they're on the field it changes everything.

Going back to the OP, I must say, I don't see merc crossbows as a dominant unit at all. Ranged units (on foot) in general have trouble dominating anything that is not willing to stand still and be shot.

If I was going to pick a ranged foot unit that can really turn battles and win shocking victories it would be the Cossack Musketeers. A few units of those on a hill can beat armies many times their size due to their range and fear factor. They are also decent enough infantry to be left off skirmish.

[econ21]

I guess I'd pick generals bodyguards - cavalry is very powerful in M2TW. The only downside is its fragility, but the 2HP/regenerating properties of bodyguards overcomes this.

Of the regular troops, playing England (or HRE) I fixate on armoured swordsmen (or DFK). They are very valuable in dealing with the mass of spearmen the AI often fields and are almost required in sieges to cope with their AI equivalents. Behind stakes, backed by longbows, they can take on most comers.

[Didz]

Going back to the OP, I must say, I don't see merc crossbows as a dominant unit at all. Ranged units (on foot) in general have trouble dominating anything that is not willing to stand still and be shot.

Well the original idea of this thread was units that make a difference NOT units which dominate.

The point about the Mercenary Crossbow's is that they are available for hire right from turn 1 and out range any other missile unit in the game at that time.

Thus, if purchased immediately they give your army a distinct advantage both in attack, defence, seige and assault which doesn't get neutralised by better units for some considerable time.

In fact. in my Russian campaign I was still fielding Mercenary Crossbowmen alongside my Dismounted Davor in preference to peasant archers.

Therefore, whilst they are not the most powerful unit in the game they do make a big difference particularly in the opening few turns of the game when rapid and relatively cheap expansion is needed.

What is clear from some of the other posts is that many players measure a units value by its individual performance on the open feild of battle. Certainly 2nd and 3rd generation cavalry and infantry will dominate in such situations. But my love of the Mercenary Crossbow unit is in the edge it gives me over my AI opponents in a wide range of situations and as part of an army rather than a single unit. All other things being equal they give my army the decisive advantage, particularly as their longer range forces the AI army to either stand and die or attack me on the ground I have chosen to defend.

[Furious Mental]

I'd go with mercenary crossbowmen and then mercenary spearmen. They really make a huge difference early on.

[dismal]

Well the original idea of this thread was units that make a difference NOT units which dominate.

Your original question was:

Which unit do you think makes the biggest difference between victory and defeat?

I assumed you were talking about which unit affects the outcome of individual battles the most.

Which unit, if present and well-used, is more likely to make the difference between defeat and victory in a given battle.

Ranged foot units are usually role players to me. Their presence and use doesn't often dramatically change the outcome of battles versus some other unit.

It's hard for me to imagine too many situations where I'd prefer one more Merc Crossbow to one more General's Bodyguard if given a choice...

But my love of the Mercenary Crossbow unit is in the edge it gives me over my AI opponents in a wide range of situations and as part of an army rather than a single unit. All other things being equal they give my army the decisive advantage, particularly as their longer range forces the AI army to either stand and die or attack me on the ground I have chosen to defend.

Well, this is a good role for them, but how many defensive field battles do you fight? And you don't need to outrange or out missile the enemy to induce him to attack you on favorable ground, as attacker he must attack you where you set up or lose. Granted, outranging/outmissiling the AI does prevent him from walking up and plinking away at you. But this should simply induce the AI to attack you quickly.

The key point is, even in this scenario, you're going to need some other units to actually fight the battle (assuming the enemy does not choose to stand and be shot.)

If the AI behaves appropriately, your foot xbows won't get off more than a shot or two before they're skirmishing away and leaving the decisive part of the battle to someone else. I'd usually rather have more of the someone else.

[Vlad Tzepes]

If a Catholic faction, yes, Mercenary Crossbowmen are great indeed. But let me tell you something about Reiters... Oh. My. God.

I absolutely love them, after I discovered they shoot when charging. The combined effect of a cavalry charge and a pistol volley seems impossible to bear by opponents. Usually they rout immediately after impact, and it works against most enemies if charged in flank or back (especially, of course, against light troops).

It's now my first HRE campaign and I trained a couple of Reiters just for fun, not really needing at that point any uber-late-period units to win any battle anymore.

I didn't know about that charge-shoot combo at the beginning, so I just deployed my Reiters in the flank of some Moors spear militia, planning to soft them up with pistol fire. The incredible short range was really disappointing (the previous campaign was as Turks, imagine using static Reiters after Janisary Musketeers).

Then, bored, I redeployed my Reiters and tried to use them as usual cavalry - charge, retreat, charge again. WOW! they charged shooting at point-blank on target and all those (surviving) pesky militias routed!

I'm pretty amazed. Use a high-valour general with 3/4 Reiters and you won't lose anything anymore...

[Didz]

Your original question was:

Which unit do you think makes the biggest difference between victory and defeat?

I assumed you were talking about which unit affects the outcome of individual battles the most.

In that case it was my bad.

What I meant to ask was which unit do you think makes the biggest difference in to your chances of winning the campaign.

Some may still feel it is the super-heavy battlefield units but I feel that in my case it is definately the mercenary crossbowman. That probably also has a lot to do with playing style as I tend to avoid open battle and concentrate on seiges, so cavalry tend to be a low priority in my armies.

[pray_for_mojo]

(my first post here)

Javelin cavalry, especially Polish Nobles with their respectable melee skills.

Volleys of armor-piercing javelins to the flank of the enemy general's bodyguard have won me more battles than I can count. Since the jav cav usually ends up behind the enemy's main line on these assassination runs, a charge to their rear follows naturally and a rout is practically assured.

[pike master]

give it a shot and find out. 8)

[Atalus]

Dis. Dvor and Dis. Boyar Sons are great