Can't missile units load BEFORE the enemy is in range?

[Omisan]

It's a bit silly that they wait until the enemy is in range to start the loading animation and then fire their first shot.

It makes sense with bows, but not with the other missile weapons as far as I know.

Because of this, the short ranged missiles units with slow reloading like catapults, ballistas and ribault miss an opportunity to fire at least one extra shot at approaching enemies.

There should be a button to manually do this or at least the AI should start loading when it detects incoming enemies soon to be in range.

[rosscoliosis]

Couldn't agree more.

[Forward Observer]

This issue has been brought up before, and I agree that it does not make a lot of sense.

All the artillery and siege weapons suffer from this problem too. Why would any commander have his cannons wait until the enemy is in range to just start the time consuming process of loading his pieces for a first shot.

Even if your missile units have just gone through the loading/cocking animation, if you assign them a new target, instead of simply turning and firing they will go through the whole loading animation all over again.

I wouldn't count on them fixing this in a patch, but let's hope they correct it in the next game. They will have to, if they go with Napoleonic warfare since firearms and artillery in particular will play such a pivotal role in the game.

Cheers

[Foz]

It's a bit silly that they wait until the enemy is in range to start the loading animation and then fire their first shot.

It makes sense with bows, but not with the other missile weapons as far as I know.

Because of this, the short ranged missiles units with slow reloading like catapults, ballistas and ribault miss an opportunity to fire at least one extra shot at approaching enemies.

There should be a button to manually do this or at least the AI should start loading when it detects incoming enemies soon to be in range.

You may be able to fix this with careful tweaking of unit ranges in the EDU and projectile velocity stats in descr_projectiles.txt. Basically what I have in mind is making the unit physically able to fire a shot out to what you want its max range to be by adjusting the projectile velocity, but then setting the range in the EDU to something longer than that by 10/20m or so. AFAIK none of the units currently work like that - instead, they artificially limit the range to something less than the velocity would actually allow the unit to fire. My thinking is that if a unit can actually be "in range" of archers without the archers actually being able to take the shot yet, it might trigger the archers to load, and then maintain readiness until they in fact can physically hit the target. There's no real evidence to support this happening though, it's just a hunch of mine based on what I've observed of the game.

[Lorenzo_H]

It's most annoying with Musketeers.

[Forward Observer]

Foz,

That's a good idea, and is possibly something that could also be addressed in a patch--that is if the developers were of a mind to fix it. Of course in might have some minor unwanted effects on balance, but I guess it is all relative.

Cheers

[Lusted]

That's if it works, i think the unit starts loading as soon as an enemy unit comes within the range specified in the edu, not the max range possible via the projectiles file.

[Foz]

That's if it works, i think the unit starts loading as soon as an enemy unit comes within the range specified in the edu, not the max range possible via the projectiles file.

That was the whole basis of my point. Currently velocities would allow for far longer shots than the EDU does - so if what you said is the case, then making the EDU numbers longer than physics would allow them to shoot might cause them to load before they can actually fire on the target. So it should work provided that the EDU number causes the loading, and not that it's just the first part of the firing animation. That may be a stretch of course, but it's worth a look, which I'll do when I get a chance.

[JCoyote]

That still won't address an enemy that isn't in line of fire yet but rounding a corner. On a siege we'd still have the enemy break down the gate and watch the Ribaults decide to load only after the enemy is charging them.

This should definitely be fixed, all missiles would be better as fire then reload. Not quite as accurate with bows, but it's not a stretch to imagine the archers moving with an arrow nocked and firing almost immediately anyway. The biggest problem would be making sure that the reloading time MUST be complete before another shot is fired. Otherwise, there be an exploit where someone fires, orders their guys to move, then orders them to fire again. So there should be some mechanic that forces a minimum time interval between shots. Currently, it looks like it's the entire process that does this, which is a poor compromise.

[holycow]

You may be able to fix this with careful tweaking of unit ranges in the EDU and projectile velocity stats in descr_projectiles.txt. Basically what I have in mind is making the unit physically able to fire a shot out to what you want its max range to be by adjusting the projectile velocity, but then setting the range in the EDU to something longer than that by 10/20m or so. AFAIK none of the units currently work like that - instead, they artificially limit the range to something less than the velocity would actually allow the unit to fire. My thinking is that if a unit can actually be "in range" of archers without the archers actually being able to take the shot yet, it might trigger the archers to load, and then maintain readiness until they in fact can physically hit the target. There's no real evidence to support this happening though, it's just a hunch of mine based on what I've observed of the game.

I've tried it before and it doesn't work, you can set the range of your units beyond the projectile range - you need to figure it out from projectile velocity. the unit will see enemy as w/in range and you'll get a green bow. the unit card will cycle through loading, firing, and reloading, but in fact the unit is not. it stands there until the enemy unit is w/in range of projectile. the only thing i've found to work is to extend the range of both units and projectile in order to get more than a few shots off at enemy before it closes in on your main line.

i posted this before, i think units walk/run way too fast and i can't see how to mod unit speed. has anyone tested exactly how fast units walk/run? the original post talks about archers, but this issue is worse w/ cannons where you only get 1-2 shots off before main lines close and it makes cannons almost useless on campaign battlemap.