I'm back, and I'm looking for someone to kill [Concluded]

[OldSchool]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on the merits of lurker-hunting versus witch-hunting. I will concede, though, that without more support, my anti-lurker crusade is futile. I will also agree on the need for more discussion. I've made the mistake of being too passive in my first mafia game and not voicing all my suspicions. I don't want to do that again, so here goes:

It looks like the main purpose of the Blackaxe inquisition was to enjoy watching him squirm. I did not find it useful. It is a well-known tactic for Sasaki and doesn't arouse any extra suspicion on my part, but I do think that anyone who is willing to pretend to be convinced by it and use it as an excuse to bandwagon should explain why. Acoording to the final vote-count, that is pevergreen and CountArach.

It was pointed out that the mafia were chosen by the GF. While that can easily turn into a WIFOM, it is at least worth considering that the two henchman are most likely to be experienced, capable players.

The more I look at the Andres-Motep connection, the more my wheel of WIFOM lands on the fact that he is more likely to use such an obvious frame as cover to get himself dismissed as a suspect than the mafia is to try to use such an obvious frame to get him lynched. Obviously, pure WIFOM at this point on my part.

Until further discussion or some anti-lurker support,
vote: abstain

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I still don't understand the supposed frame. How does motep being killed after andres voted him implicate andres in the slightest?

[OldSchool]

^^that doesn't make sense.

This has all the markings of a newbie frame attempt.

Vote:BlackAxe

That frame. The one you pointed out. If it was a frame attempt, it was done to look like a newbie frame attempt.

I am assuming a few things at this point:

1) The henchmen are very likely to be experienced, capable mafia.

2) I do not think Andres pre-kill vote against Motep would have been used as a serious frame attempt against him by an experienced mafia. It would be too easily dismissed and would actually serve to help him avoid the first-round bandwagons.

3) If the connection was used at all, I think it much more likely to be a covering tactic or an attempt to fake noobishness.

4) WIFOM gives me a headache. I realize it is impossible to draw conclusions. However, I don't think that means it shouldn't be examined and possibilities raised.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yeah I got that. I understood blackAxe thought the that the kill implicated andres I just don't see why.

the more my wheel of WIFOM lands on the fact that he is more likely to use such an obvious frame as cover to get himself dismissed as a suspect

And it seems it's something I should understand.

[OldSchool]

Yeah I got that. I understood blackAxe thought the that the kill implicated andres I just don't see why.



And it seems it's something I should understand.

Truthfully, I don't know what to think of the Andres-Motep connection at this point or if there even is one. I was merely pointing out what my leanings are at the moment. Obviously not enough to cast a vote.

I'm more interested in the clue we have that the GF was able to pick his own henchmen. Any opinions on that?

[BlackAxe3001]

I thought that Andres voted Motep and then "since Andres was mafia" decided to kill motep that night. Obviously this was very poorly thought out, if thought out at all and so I just voted for him which led to my witch hunt and me almost being lynched. There was no logic to it and therefore impossible to understand.

You can beat this to death about how many different twists and turns the mafia could have taken to make anyone seem like mafia using the andres-motep connection, but no one really knows except for the mafia. I for one and done trying to make sense of it at all because it is impossible.

The bigger issue is guessing who the GF would be out of the people left and who would he pick as henchmen?

[OldSchool]

About the henchmen:

I don't know that we can pinpoint exactly who would be chosen, but I think we can narrow the field considerably.

I doubt that any wog-baits or noobs would have been chosen, which shortens the list quite a bit.

After that, it depends on the GF.

An newer one would probably have chosen some of the more notorious players.

An experienced one would have been aware of who would most likely be targeted for investigation and chosen more selectively.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

In GF1 I chose GH and GH chose Cowhead and gorebag.

In GF2 Csar chose GH and Myrddraal.

In Graffiti mafia Disco chose GH, Kommo, and Xiahou.


If you choose an experienced player they will be assumed to be more likely to be chosen. If you choose a new player they are more likely to reveal themselves. We don't know who is doing the choosing and the most important mafioso wasn't chosen anyway...so the discussion doesn't have much point.

Of course it should be obvious that no gf in his right mind would choose me.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I thought that Andres voted Motep and then "since Andres was mafia" decided to kill motep that night. Obviously this was very poorly thought out, if thought out at all and so I just voted for him which led to my witch hunt and me almost being lynched. There was no logic to it and therefore impossible to understand.

You can beat this to death about how many different twists and turns the mafia could have taken to make anyone seem like mafia using the andres-motep connection, but no one really knows except for the mafia. I for one and done trying to make sense of it at all because it is impossible.

The bigger issue is guessing who the GF would be out of the people left and who would he pick as henchmen?

Hey don't feel so bad. Mafia is to some extent a game of witch hunting and you came off looking pretty good.

[pevergreen]

No that was Dutch_guy's kill. I didn't add his name because I was hoping you all would annoy me with questions so I could feel loved.

What?

One person died and the other didnt have a name (failed kill?)

[Csargo]

What?

One person died and the other didnt have a name (failed kill?)

1 kill HughTower
2 kill Dutch_guy

[Stig]

*observes as Stig votes and then disappears, to appeare once more next round*

*observes how Stig has a life, wanting to sleep and all*
*observes how Stig doesn't always sits behind his PC*



OH NO, HE'S HUMAN, LYNCH HIM!!!!

[Lord Winter]

It is well known that a commen newbie mistake for a mafiasoto is to draw attention to a frame to try and drive his point across. While we could go WIFOM about why he would draw it as a frame or a reason it still merits some thought. Old school I'm also surprised surprised about your sudden shift in tactics from going after lurkers a realtivly safe path for a mafiosto to persue to suddenly shifting at the begaining of the round for a lack of support that you couldn't as of yet predict.

For now with a lack of anything else to go on:

Vote: Oldschool
This will probably change.

[pevergreen]

bold please, it helps the host.

[Andres]

Of course it should be obvious that no gf in his right mind would choose me.

Unless the GodFather is a newbie and wants Sasaki on his team...

And off course, it is always possible that you are the GodFather.

Trying to look innocent?

[CountArach]

Of course it should be obvious that no gf in his right mind would choose me.

Or in fact we could invoke WIFOM and say that that is what they want us to think...

[OldSchool]

It is well known that a commen newbie mistake for a mafiasoto is to draw attention to a frame to try and drive his point across. While we could go WIFOM about why he would draw it as a frame or a reason it still merits some thought. Old school I'm also surprised surprised about your sudden shift in tactics from going after lurkers a realtivly safe path for a mafiosto to persue to suddenly shifting at the begaining of the round for a lack of support that you couldn't as of yet predict.

For now with a lack of anything else to go on:

Vote: Oldschool
This will probably change.

Just trying to keep the conversation lively...

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

When you killed me, you certainly killed a innocent.

I still stand by what I said - Kommodus, CountArach, Sasaki, and perhaps even GH, are my highest supects as mafiosos. There atitudes are rather blunt, taking advantage of BlackAxe's "newbieness" in mafia gaming and framing him through "mistakes" which he has made while posting, which I find, highly suspitious.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Or in fact we could invoke WIFOM and say that that is what they want us to think...

haha, I knew people would comment on that. I think being investigated n1 for the past 5 games disqualifies me :p

But Andres with his gf point has highlighted the flaw in searching for suspects by who might have been chosen. Although I probably keep in it in mind.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

*observes how Stig has a life, wanting to sleep and all*
*observes how Stig doesn't always sits behind his PC*



OH NO, HE'S HUMAN, LYNCH HIM!!!!

Vote:stig

Your post count is usually one of the highest.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

btw guys the kills have been up yesterday and there's a distinct lack of votes. What gives?

[Dutch_guy]

1 kill HughTower
2 kill Dutch_guy

Damn it, shot in the back of the head - what an uninspired kill...

btw guys the kills have been up yesterday and there's a distinct lack of votes. What gives?

People do not like getting caught based on voting behaviour, hence the lack of votes.

[Andres]

Vote:stig

Your post count is usually one of the highest.

True, on the other hand, he hasn't posted alot (for his habit) the last few days, so maybe his real life claim is righteous.

It amazes me a bit that you didn't check that before throwing an accusation...

I'm eager to vote you, but I still want to give you the benefit of the doubt for just one more round. But please, do some research before randomly throwing around accusations, will you?

I agree with DoH that OldSchool's sudden change of tactics, is a bit odd.

Add to that:

I doubt that any wog-baits or noobs would have been chosen, which shortens the list quite a bit.

Are you implying that it is doubtfull that you would be chosen?

The change of tactics and this statement, make me

Vote : OldSchool

But this may change in the course of the day.

[scotchedpommes]

It amazes me a bit that you didn't check that before throwing an accusation...

No, we've never seen this behaviour, have we?
To me, it always seems a balance between providing something to provoke a
telling response [although with Stig, all you seem to get is overly defensive] and
getting ourselves caught up in the minutiae of visiting habits and suchlike that
can easily be explained away with reasons that we have no choice but to
[reasonably] accept as being plausible.

I'm slightly concerned, I will say, that you would vote OldSchool for attempting
to spark some discussion, Andres. That, along with

...maybe it's best we all shut up...

makes me wonder. I see your supposed reasoning, although I am then forced to
ask, would stifling discussion really be helpful to us?

[Kommodus]

*observes how Stig has a life, wanting to sleep and all*
*observes how Stig doesn't always sits behind his PC*



OH NO, HE'S HUMAN, LYNCH HIM!!!!

This post is just reactionary enough to raise eyebrows. Reminds me a bit of myself as a mafioso...

Also, I think that Stig would be a good choice for a mafia grunt. He's an experienced mafioso (having achieved victory in Midgard Saga), and definitely has a penchant for staying alive (survived both Midgard Saga and Mafia VI). For these reasons,

Vote: Stig

[Andres]

No, we've never seen this behaviour, have we?
To me, it always seems a balance between providing something to provoke a
telling response [although with Stig, all you seem to get is overly defensive] and
getting ourselves caught up in the minutiae of visiting habits and suchlike that
can easily be explained away with reasons that we have no choice but to
[reasonably] accept as being plausible.

Well, I'd prefer Sasaki to make good accusations, not just random ones. Randomly accusing, claiming that you do it to provoke discussion, might confuse the town and draw away attention if used as a tactic by a mafioso. I think it's not a good idea to blindly trust Sasaki and to follow his lead. So I'll be very critical towards him. A healthy attitude me thinks.

And his explanation about the detective who must have investigated him at round one, well, it's not something we should trust on, because it happened more than once the detective got killed early in the game.

I'm slightly concerned, I will say, that you would vote OldSchool for attempting
to spark some discussion, Andres. That, along with

makes me wonder. I see your supposed reasoning, although I am then forced to
ask, would stifling discussion really be helpful to us?

I'm not voting him because he attempts to spark discussin, I voted him because his sudden change of tactic combined with a statement implying that a godfather wouldn't chose a newbie like him, itches me a bit. It makes me feel uncomfortable. It's early in the game, so it's always a bit guessing, but my guts tell me something is not right with OldSchool.

@Kommodus: such a reaction is not unusual for Stig, both for an innocent as a guilty Stig. Btw, do you have usefull results from holmes yet...?

[Kommodus]

@Kommodus: such a reaction is not unusual for Stig, both for an innocent as a guilty Stig. Btw, do you have usefull results from holmes yet...?

Maybe so, but my second argument for voting Stig still stands. I'll review everything when I get home from work (which unfortunately won't be for quite a while yet), but for now I think I'll leave my vote as is.

Holmes won't have any useful results for at least two more rounds.

[Stig]

Yeah, lynch Stig for him having a social life


Unvote, vote: Stig

I won Midgard, why change a winning strategy? I have never lost with it

[Andres]

Yeah, lynch Stig for him having a social life


Unvote, vote: Stig

I won Midgard, why change a winning strategy? I have never lost with it

It's in the towns' interest not to lynch a townie, so please come up with a better "defence" than that.

Voting for yourself can be a) a vote out of frustration, which is not a good thing to do ; b) a scummy tactic, since it's easy to change the vote to someone else who is getting under fire later on, conveniently avoiding to get lynched.

So, instead of doing option b), I'd prefer you to change that vote (which you'll probably change anyway ) right now before someone else is feeling some heat (thus allowing you to quickly switch your vote unnoticed) and at the same time state your opinion on other players and vote for somebody who is suspicious in your opinion + give your reasons for voting that particular player.

[Stig]

I've had 5 beers m8, and it's only 18:01.

In my defense:
I have better things to do then hang around at some forum, it's beautiful weather now, you can find me sitting outside with a beer till the evening nowadays