I'm back, and I'm looking for someone to kill [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

True, on the other hand, he hasn't posted alot (for his habit) the last few days, so maybe his real life claim is righteous.

If I were going to lurk I would make darn sure I wasn't posting up a storm in any other threads. It's common sense.

Why did you jump to defend stig?

Stig why are you voting yourself?

[Stig]

Stig why are you voting yourself?

well it's me who's having a social life, ofcourse I must pay for that, bad me

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Are you implying that it is doubtfull that you would be chosen?

The change of tactics and this statement, make me

Vote : OldSchool

But this may change in the course of the day.

I don't like this vote. Who says there was a change in tactics? For one thing csar just mentioned that the gf chose the henchmen. You suggest here that OldSchool had a choice yesterday of going after lurkers and of considering henchmen. Is this because you knew yesterday that the gf chose his henchmen?

Also there is no evidence of a change in tactics, this could easily be an aside. I also don't think Oldschool would include himself with the noobs, he's obviously read some of the past games.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

well it's me who's having a social life, ofcourse I must pay for that, bad me

You're obviously able to post now so you've just proved you do have the time to.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Also saskii is it me or have you been throwing around more bad townie votes then ussual?

Well, I'd prefer Sasaki to make good accusations, not just random ones. Randomly accusing, claiming that you do it to provoke discussion, might confuse the town and draw away attention if used as a tactic by a mafioso. I think it's not a good idea to blindly trust Sasaki and to follow his lead. So I'll be very critical towards him. A healthy attitude me thinks.

Old school I'm also surprised surprised about your sudden shift in tactics

I agree with DoH that OldSchool's sudden change of tactics, is a bit odd.

Vote: Oldschool
This will probably change.

Vote : OldSchool

But this may change in the course of the day.

Interesting correlations here. I'm not convinced they are scum together, that would be a bit easy. Their oldschool wagon put him in the lead of stig though, interesting.


Also, Andres, could you answer me on this:

Why did you ask the town to stop talking? We aren't having nearly enough discussion as it is.

[Stig]

I have to eat something don't I?
I'll be gone between 20:30 and 0:00 so don't expect too much from me

[Kommodus]

Ok, am I the only one who's finding Stig's behavior very suspicious?

Stig, I didn't accuse you for "having a social life." I accused you because:

A) You made what appeared to me to be an over-reactionary post.

B) I felt the Godfather was reasonably likely to choose you as a mafia grunt.

Now you claim that your social life is causing the reduction in your posting frequency. That's fine with me - it wasn't that reduction which caused my suspicions of you anyway. But now that you're under threat, you've shown that you do care about the game a fair amount. That's not exactly what I'd expect from someone who's using a "social life" as an excuse for inactivity.

And BTW, I do find voting for yourself a scummy tactic. That's also one I've used before, and it bought me an extra round.

Basically, you sound guilty. Until I have more analytical information from Holmes, my vote stands.

[OldSchool]

Well, if I'm a mafia, I'm an arrogant one to be all over the thread like this. As Sasaki pointed out, I haven't changed tactics, I'm simply discussing what I've noticed so far.

If I find I can cast a useful vote to help get someone out of the shadows, I will do so. I'm sure some of you had a good laugh at the "usefullness" of my first vote. I think there's not much future in trying to unlurk Ignoramus, eh?

I think these early round lynches should be based on something more practical than gut feelings and unsubstantiated suspicions. I think voting to get people involved has practical benefits, and I think voting to remove people who are being used as a distraction has practical benefits.

Of the things I wanted to discuss, I wouldn't have thought that Andres would be the most pertinent, but now that I look back through the thread, I see that he voted not only Motep for lurking, but also HughTower, and both died the next round. I think he is being used as a distraction and I think it is more beneficial for us to remove that distraction than to lynch people for talking.

vote: AndresTheCunning

[Stig]

@Kommo, I can't defend against you. The GF might choose me as a grunt yes, and I might over-react in your opinion.

Anyway if I were GF I would choose either Sasaki, GH or you. Fact.

And I know atleast one of you is a mafia

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Anyway if I were GF I would choose either Sasaki, GH or you. Fact.

And I know atleast one of you is a mafia

haha, I don't think you intended to word this quite this way.

[Dutch_guy]

Of the things I wanted to discuss, I wouldn't have thought that Andres would be the most pertinent, but now that I look back through the thread, I see that he voted not only Motep for lurking, but also HughTower, and both died the next round. I think he is being used as a distraction and I think it is more beneficial for us to remove that distraction than to lynch people for talking.

vote: AndresTheCunning

Although the reasoning is logical, in the end it's just a mere retaliation vote.

Anyway if I were GF I would choose either Sasaki, GH or you. Fact.

I'd choose Kommodus, probably, but not Sasaki. You as well as many others know that both of them are the first ones screened by every detective, after that it goes by popular opinion of the town - figures like yourself in this game as an example. So no, picking two prominent figures isn't the way to go for a Godfather. Now I don't have any experience in that field, but choosing some grunts just has a higher chance of getting caught by the detective. As stated, Kommodus, Sasaki, GH all fit that profile.

So, beware the lurkers, and the low profile players people, and trust the detective with the higher profile ones.

[OldSchool]

So, beware the lurkers, and the low profile players people, and trust the detective with the higher profile ones.

QFT

[The Foolish Horseman]

Vote:Kommodus

Omanes was innocent i believe, álthough i voted for him. The mafioso will probably be:

GH
Kommodus
Sasaki

hence the vote for kommodus

[OldSchool]

If you're going to lynch me, I'll try to make my point one last time before I hang and then I'll shut-up about it.

I don't think our first lynch was of any practical benefit, unless we just got lucky and hit one. If we had lynched a lurker, I think we would be seeing the benefit right now, with added discussion in this thread.

It may seem a bit cold-blooded, but I think these early lynches should be based more on practical reasons than on suspicions, until those suspicions can be backed up with evidence.

[The Foolish Horseman]

but from further browsing of the thread, i can see some loop holes in some peoples explanations.

Stig seems to have heaped lots of attention on himself with his "Alibi". I think this is just a decoy to pull people away form the real mafioso, who Stig knows.

Of the things I wanted to discuss, I wouldn't have thought that Andres would be the most pertinent, but now that I look back through the thread, I see that he voted not only Motep for lurking, but also HughTower, and both died the next round. I think he is being used as a distraction and I think it is more beneficial for us to remove that distraction than to lynch people for talking.

vote: AndresTheCunning

OldSchool definatley also has a valid point here. The connection between AndresTheCunning's votes and the deaths is all to continous to be a coincidence. Therefore

Unvote: Kommodus
Vote: AndresThecunning

[Sasaki Kojiro]

No one is even voting for you OldSchool

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I think both Andres and Stig are mafia.

[The Foolish Horseman]

No one is even voting for you OldSchool

he seemed a bit jumpy to me Sasaki Kojiro.

maybe he is trying to hide something

[OldSchool]

No one is even voting for you OldSchool

I thought I read that I was in the lead in the bandwagon parade? I had a nice farewell speech all planned out and everything...

[scotchedpommes]

but from further browsing of the thread, i can see some loop holes in some peoples explanations.

Stig seems to have heaped lots of attention on himself with his "Alibi". I think this is just a decoy to pull people away form the real mafioso, who Stig knows.

Stig's reactionary contributions have been unhelpful, and I would subscribe to
the idea that it may be a last-ditch attempt on his part to deflect attention
either away from himself or another. If he appears to be using either of these
tactics, how can we defend him?

I will Vote: Stig at this juncture.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hahaha, it seems that sooner or later I won't be able to escape the witchhunt due to the game's structure.

Strangely enough, all of the Dutchies/Flemish seem to be suspicious, aside from Dutch_guy. Wonder if there's a connection.

Anyways,

Vote: Stig

I don't like it when people vote for themselves.

[Andres]

Why did you ask the town to stop talking? We aren't having nearly enough discussion as it is.

I asked it during the night phase. Alot of discussion at night, might give the mafia clues about who is most likely to get lynched. If I were mafia, I'd kill people that aren't participating alot and are not getting alot of attention or votes. Let the town do my work by lynching innocent townies, I'll kill the innocent townies who are not likely to get lynched.

For instance, I would never kill you, Kommodus or Stig, because you guys always end up being suspicious and attracting votes.

That's why I asked to shut up during the night. If you disagree, would you like me to explain why this reasoning is wrong?

As for OldSchool: I don't like retalation votes. The reasoning isn't convincing either. Lynching a bad townie is still lynching a townie, which is not desirable. Btw, in post #151 you were suspicious about pevergreen and CountArach. Care to elaborate ?

For now my vote stands.

But I'd like a decent explanation and defense from Stig as well. Voting for yourself is scummy. You might as well wait and quickly change your vote right before the night begins, saving you for one more round

Not only mafiaosi need to save their skin, a townie should try to save his skin as well, since his dead is not in the intrest of his companions.

[OldSchool]

As for OldSchool: I don't like retalation votes. The reasoning isn't convincing either. Lynching a bad townie is still lynching a townie, which is not desirable. Btw, in post #151 you were suspicious about pevergreen and CountArach. Care to elaborate ?

It isn't a retaliation vote, Andres. I think you are either mafia or you are being used as a distraction by them. Either way, I think the most practical thing we can do this round is remove both possibilities by lynching you. It's nothing personal.

The reason I mentioned CountArach and pevergreen is because those two votes were pure bandwagon. That is my biggest problem with witch-hunting. It inevitably leads to bandwagons, and that makes it easy for people to disguise their votes and thus, their intentions.

[Warmaster Horus]

since his dead is not in the intrest of his companions.

Unless he's of no help to the town. Remember The Spartan, in Mafia II (I think)? He said he was a mafioso to confuse the actual Mafiosi. But in the end, he confused the town.
Anyway, Vote:Stig. The vote seems to be swaying to him. And, he's suspicious.
I'd also like to ask those who aren't too busy with RL (barely enough time to type this as it is) to see who was the most suspicious before the beginning of this turn. If Stig jumped in to protect someone else (he was the first to vote I believe), he'd be more likely to be a Mafioso, trying to protect his partner.
My two cents on the matter, for now.

[Andres]

It isn't a retaliation vote, Andres. I think you are either mafia or you are being used as a distraction by them. Either way, I think the most practical thing we can do this round is remove both possibilities by lynching you. It's nothing personal.

I am used by who, if I may ask? I agreed with DoH's reasoning. Do you believe he is suspicious?

The reason I mentioned CountArach and pevergreen is because those two votes were pure bandwagon. That is my biggest problem with witch-hunting. It inevitably leads to bandwagons, and that makes it easy for people to disguise their votes and thus, their intentions.

True to a certain degree. I don't like bandwagons either. Makes it too easy for mafia to put a vote without looking suspicious. On the other hand, why would the mafia jump on a bandwagon if that candidate is about to get lynched anyway? I know that in Mafia VI, where I was mafia, I tried to avoid to jump on bandwagons and instead accused other players of doing so, meanwhile putting the first vote on them, hoping the town would follow. So jumping on a bandwagon isn't necessarily equal to being mafia. On the short term, it may look like a good tactic, because a townie get lynched, in the long run, people will start noticing and will ask questions.

Vote tally:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OldSchool : 2 (Destroyer of Hope, AndresTheCunning)
Stig: 6 (Sasaki, Kommodus, rdece.jabolko, Stig, GeneralHankerchief, WarMaster Horus)
AndresTheCunning: 2 (OldSchool, GBB)

[OldSchool]

I am used by who, if I may ask? I agreed with DoH's reasoning. Do you believe he is suspicious?

Everybody is suspicious.

True to a certain degree. I don't like bandwagons either. Makes it too easy for mafia to put a vote without looking suspicious. On the other hand, why would the mafia jump on a bandwagon if that candidate is about to get lynched anyway? I know that in Mafia VI, where I was mafia, I tried to avoid to jump on bandwagons and instead accused other players of doing so, meanwhile putting the first vote on them, hoping the town would follow. So jumping on a bandwagon isn't necessarily equal to being mafia. On the short term, it may look like a good tactic, because a townie get lynched, in the long run, people will start noticing and will ask questions.

It's not just the potential for the mafia to jump on bandwagons. It's also the potential to leave the mafia free to do their own thing, while the bandwagon rolls through town lynching townies. I don't think any anti-town activity should be safe. Whether it's lurking, bandwagoning, or self-voting.

[OldSchool]

I am used by who, if I may ask? I agreed with DoH's reasoning. Do you believe he is suspicious?

Had to go back and find DoH's post. No, I don't find it particularly suspicious.

As far as being used, Andres. That much is clear. Every time you vote someone, they are killed the next night. As long as that continues, we will spend way too much time talking about it, which = distraction.

And what will happen the first time your vote isn't killed? Maybe we will find out tomorrow. Your connection with the killings can be used not only to draw suspicion on yourself, but also against other players.

Obviously, I have a personal interest in what happens in that regard, but that can't be helped. I won't change my opinion merely to seem less suspicious. My vote stands in this round.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

No one is even voting for you OldSchool

Here you go again Sasaki. Random throwing around of accusations and picking on a new player again. Also you seem to be spamming this thread - is this to cause my accusations and suspicions to be so far back that nobody will read them?

When I look at your posts and add up the evidence, all I can see is the word "Guilty" written all over your style.

[RoadKill]

Omanes, you stold the words out of my mouth and I 100% agree with you so
Vote:sasaki

[Dutch_guy]

Omanes, if that's an accusation then Sasaki's lost his style. He can do much better than that.

He may seem to be spamming this thread, but it's just him being him. He's always either the number two poster, but more frequently the number one poster. Generating discussion is his style, and has always been that way. He, and others mind you, tend to go after the newer players because they have no particular style. We have no idea if this is there usual play style, or their mafioso way to play the game. Hence, reactions in the form of discussion are needed to get to know them better.

So, in each and every game in which Sasaki has played, gathering the 'evidence' would have always led to certain lynch. However, he has exactly the same statistical chance of being selected as mafioso as we do. Don't go after him because he generates discussion - heck, townies should !

In short, don't be worried. He's always like this, and rest assured the Detective has already investigated him. And if he were mafia, the detective would instantly reveal - as the detective vs mafioso trade is a good one.