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Thread: hojo horde

  1. #1
    Member Member hach's Avatar
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    had this conversation before.

    is the hojo horde a cheat(in other words the hojo gets more koku than he is enitled to)
    also does it manufacture troops in provinces with no troop building facilities?

    or just good ashigaru management(after a while for about every 10 units he makes at least 8 are ashigaru)this makes up the majority of the horde with very few decent troops'but overwhelming numbers.he has at least 10 dojo's in 10 different provinces churning out 10 units per season or 40 per year.

    or a combination of both.

    if it's just number 2 then surely his horde could be countered by all players building similar ashigaru heavy armies'and also why is it just the hojo and not the others?

    hach
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  2. #2
    Member Member edRonin's Avatar
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    It's know that at the higher difficulty levels the computer can still build troops even though it runs out of koku. My theory is that when the computer runs out of koku it is restricted to building YA. That would explain why the horde tends to be YA heavy.

    The best way to counter the horde is to surround the province the horde is in then invade and win that province. A small portion of the horde will retreat to a castle (if it exists) while the rest of the horde disapears.

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  3. #3
    Member Member angelofhullfire's Avatar
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    I've noticed that the Horde gathers in a few provinces rather than spreading out. This could be programmed to make the game more playable, as 1000+ armies on half the map would be unbeatable.

    Having 10,000+ troops that will rout relatively easily (YA) in one province makes the horde beatable. I've just yet to do it...

  4. #4
    Member Member Tora's Avatar
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    Much has been said about the Hojo ability to build armies out of nothing but what about their superhuman construction properties?
    Playing Oda on normal,in the first year Lord Imagawa did the suicidal Daimyo act against me in Mino and being heirless kindly left his chattels and goods to his chum Lord Uesugi.Two years later Lord Uesugi got the worst of an argument with the Mad Monks of Kaga and having no heir,and an alliance with Hojo,guess who copped the lot?
    At the time I had an emissary in Hizen which at the end of Uesugi's tenancy contained a large castle,one famous spear dojo,one famous archery dojo and,of course,a port.
    Three years later,upon checking the state of play in Hizen,Nagasaki had developed out of all recognition to the tune of a legendary spear and archery dojo, a citadel and a palace.
    Short of buying cranes and earthmoving equipment from the Portuguese surely it's impossible for a human player to build all this in three years,even if the fortress/citadel had been well under way already.
    "St Juniper once said, 'By his loins shall ye know him and by the length of his rod shall he be measured.' The length of my rod is a mystery to all but the Queen, and a thousand Turkish whores, but the
    fruits of my loins are here for all to see. I have two sons, Henry and.... another one.
    Step forward, Harry, Prince of Wales."

    ( King Richard in Blackadder)

  5. #5
    Member Member Tenchimuyo's Avatar
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    Until patch 1.13 is released, I will just stick with Hojo, Uesegi and Hojo.

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  6. #6
    Member Member BanzaiZAP's Avatar
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    Hojo also gets a major help from cheap castles. It save hundreds of koku, which allows you to build more troops, and get the tech-bonuses earlier. Not only do you get a horde, but it's a well-armed and armoed horde at that!

    -- B)

  7. #7
    Member Member smoothdragon's Avatar
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    Tora, I noticed the same exact thing! While playing Hojo against the Oda Horde, I sent a team of shinobis to raise hell behind the front lines. What I found was the Oda Horde having 4 provinces with fortress and 3 of them going on to citadel. This is on hard difficulty. How can the Oda build these castles so fast while I am struggling to expand two fortress provinces? I hold all the rich provinces, while Oda is stuck with the poor lands of the West. I'd like to know how the AI is able to construct buildings faster than I can with lower annual tax yield.

  8. #8
    Member Member RageFury's Avatar
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    i noticed pretty similar and is one of the reasons i stopped playing campaign at the moment...i would be vastly outnumbered all ashigaru,sam arch and i think 1 no dachi....i beat this massive army with 2 monks,2 CA,and 1 YC.....this was on hard so i stopped playing it...just plain silly...especially when my YC won against 2 ashi units
    "The only certainties in life are that we are born and we die. The rest is just a sea of complexity"

  9. #9
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    I've done some playtesting against Hojo and am of this opinion:
    1. The AI is still allowed to deficit spend (reportedly until patch 1.13 comes out) on the more difficult levels.
    2. Hojo purchase troops every turn in every province that contains troop training capabilities.
    3. While the Hojo AI hasn't, according to my reading of the saved-game campaign log, deficit spend to purchase buildings and upgrades, it will do it to train troops.
    4. This is how it is able to support such large armies that even the richest clan could never afford to accomodate (1 soldier=1 koku spent in retainer per year). Hojo simply spends to produce regions with troop-producing capabilities, and then starts cranking out men when the money runs out. Sometimes Hojo goes bankrupt when all he's capable of producing are Ashi, or most of his provinces can only produce Ashi, while other times he gets lucky and is able to upgrade to Monks etc. before his bankruptcy hits. This explains the general unbalanced nature of his armies.


  10. #10
    Member Member Tone's Avatar
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    Soly:

    I've never followed the Hojo build-up methodically so am not sure. But am I right in thinking that if I hit his key troop building provinces with port attacks after he has gone into bankrupt mode that he cannot upgrade facilities again. So if I take a province but can't hold it I have still permanently disrupted the quality of troops he can train.

  11. #11
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Well it seems to appear that way. I did a few port attacks with the intention of simply attacking his rear, fortress-level provinces and battling from province to province to do just what you suggested, destroy or downgrade his buildings. And yes, I went back every year or so after Hojo had reclaimed them and the buildings were at the same level as when I left/abandoned them. But you'll never be able to completely wipe out his troop training abilities (his legendary dojo becomes a famous dojo etc., but will still make men) so the point becomes moot when he's still throwing 3000-14000 men at you every turn, even though they may not be of such high quality.

  12. #12

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    Personally I think the usagei hord is much worse than hojo

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  13. #13
    Member Member Katasaki Hirojima's Avatar
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    My favorite Daiymo tp play is Takeda,so I don't run into horde problems much,except for those annoying Oda hordes that can be smashed from a dual Aki/SHinano Blitz.

    The BLitz is a effective way of disabling a horde if you catch it in the rear.Reason being,the back provinces that are undefended can be quickly captured.Just keep pushing through his land,avoiding attacks when possible and if he dosen't have troops in the area to take that land back,my army leaves a trail of large Ronin armys that will spread like wildfire.It helps to raise taxes to incourage ronin upriseings.

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    "I maintain none the less that Yin-Tang Dualism can bo overcome.With sufficent enlightment,we can give substance to any distinction:Mind without body,north without south,pleasure without pain.Renember,enlightment is a function of will power,not of physical strength."-Shang-ji Yang,essays on mind and matter.
    I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength.- Shang-ji Yang

  14. #14
    Member Member Irving's Avatar
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    whatever clan you play, you will be confronted by some kind of horde.... is there a mori or shimazu horde... has anyone seen that before??

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    Chaos is born from order.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member ShaiHulud's Avatar
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    Irving...I've seen a Shimazu horde, once, but never a Mori. In fact, I've never seen Mori survive at all. It's always either Takeda or Oda taking him out. He's just too poor and has too many threatened provinces.

    Soly... Interesting info on the Hojo production. I've used 20 or so shinobi to cause rebellions successfully, thinking that would destroy his infrastructure. Does that work at all?

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  16. #16
    Member Member The Bear's Avatar
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    I'm not Soly but ...a sucessfull revolt will cause infrastructure damage (destruction or downgrading) when the Ai takes back the province by conquest. This slows down the building and training, buying time, but ultimatly we have to face the horde on the battlefield. You might also bring 5-6 ninja's whith your shinobis on revolt missions, to kill the Ai general that takes back the ronin province.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Senior Member ShaiHulud's Avatar
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    Bear.. thanx for the update. I don't usually have any ninja but that's an interesting idea you've proposed. I found that, even when
    I did raise a rebellion, it rarely lasted for very long. The Horde was quite capable of
    creating troops nearby, enough to retake the province quickly. I was never able to raise a rebellion in a garrisonned province, tho, so I don't see that the ninja would assist in that battle.

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    O stranger, Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their will.....

  18. #18
    Member Member The Bear's Avatar
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    The ninja are they're just to kill the Ai general that recapture's the rebellious province. That way the taisho doesn't live long enough to gain much honor from the victories against the revolts.

    Revolts are more usefull before the horde comes to life ("It's alive")slowing down the clan's growth, before it becomes a monster. Keeping weaker clans alive buys time also

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